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Another terrorist attack - London Bridge

That's why the response I gave is the only response to give. Reduce (ideally to zero) the number of potential jihadists in your society. That's how you prevent these attacks.

Never going to eliminate the occasional homicidal loon who does stuff like this for personal reasons, but they don't represent an existential threat to our societies. Islam does.

Anyone sane wants to reduce the number of jihadists in a country to zero.

The problem is that it's next to impossible to do that. 99.99% of Muslims are good decent people, how do you weed out the violent extremists?

If you go full bore throw the baby out with the bathwater and halt all immigration from a specific group, then you paint a large target on your country and invite more of them to try and attack.

Are you capable of thinking about complex problems with more subtlety and nuance, or does the racist xenophobic mist override every waking thought?

Islam is no more an existential threat to the world than Christianity was in the days of the Roman Empire.

Personally I'll go about my business exactly the same today as I did yesterday, because **** terrorists, I am not afraid of them.
I'm sad that people have died in another attack, but happy that there are 3 less extremist nutters on the planet.
 
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Firstly, the IRA were not a 'Christian' terror organisation - their motives were purely political. Yes, the religious element involved was a big, inextricable part of the troubles, but not the main motivation. The two sides were divided by Unionism or Republicanism, which usually had religious connotations, but the IRA were not doing what they did in the name of religion, so let's dispel that apologist nonsense right now.

Back to current events then. Should we start deporting all Muslims from the UK? No. Should we be thoroughly and robustly investigating anyone with links to Islamic terrorism in the UK? Absolutely.

In many of the incidents in Europe of late, the authorities have admitted that the attackers were 'known' to them, or on some kind of 'watch list'. If this is the case then let's stop pussy-footing around these people; tag them - restrict and monitor their movements; deport or detain them if possible and necessary. We also need to put an end to insular Islamic communities where this kind of terrorism is being bred, there needs to be more transparency and integration; we need to put an end to the ridiculous politically correct attitudes about religion that have become prevalent in society that are hamstringing the Government and authorities; a person or groups religious beliefs should be personal, but afford them absolutely ZERO concessions when it comes to the laws of this country, or when it comes to a criminal investigation.

Yes, I'm mainly talking about Islam and Islamic extremists here, because that's the problem we face at present, but NO religious beliefs should be afforded such respect that it becomes difficult to act against a terror threat linked to that religion.

Theresa May gave her reaction this morning, and it looks like she could be suggesting the kid gloves are coming off:

Theresa May has said there is far too much tolerance of extremism in our country and that its time to be more robust in tackling it.

Delivering a statement outside Downing Street following the terror attack that has killed seven and injured 48, the Prime Minister said it was time to say "enough is enough".

She said that "identifying and stamping it out across the public sector and across society" would require "difficult and embarrassing" conversations.

http://news.sky.com/story/theresa-m...ows-we-are-too-tolerant-of-extremism-10903867

About bloody time.
 
I'd like to know why the Islam apologists care so much about defending Islam. It's like the people who volunteer to provide counselling for rapists and murderers in prison. Is there nothing better they could spend their energy on?

After the Manchester attack a Reverend got some serious air time on Sky news. His sole agenda was to defend religion - he was effectively saying "this attack had nothing to do with religion". It was disgusting.
 
Until relatively recently there were fences between the path and roadway to stop people just crossing the road. I'm not sure how much they would have acted to slow down the van though? I did think it was strange they removed them although more as it's a dangerous road to cross and you would think you'd want to discourage that

Yes, I was only just remarking to Mrs Analyst that recently there has been an active move away from kerb-side fencing/barriers to separate pedestrians from the road, especially at intersections.
 
I'd like to know why the Islam apologists care so much about defending Islam.

Freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion. These principles mean a great deal to some of us. Then, of course, there are the racist/xenophobic overtones, leading to panic and bad policies on the political front. It's actually an idea taken from the conservative side of the aisle - how much freedom are we willing to sacrifice for safety? Or, more properly, Security TheaterWP.
 
In many of the incidents in Europe of late, the authorities have admitted that the attackers were 'known' to them, or on some kind of 'watch list'. If this is the case then let's stop pussy-footing around these people; tag them - restrict and monitor their movements; deport or detain them if possible and necessary.

I'm not sure you understand the prevalence issue, or that of resource. To monitor a single person 24/7 requires 27 specially trained officers. There are at any one time over 3,000 active threats to be monitored, and some sources say another 20,000 lie on the periphery. Those 3,000 threats alone would require almost the entire UK police force in order to be fully monitored.
 
Freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of religion. These principles mean a great deal to some of us.

We know that's not true because the protests surrounding these alleged freedoms are not evident when it comes to anything other than Islam. If a person cares about free speech then they defend all free speech, not just their little pet virtue-signalling projects.
 
SatansMaleVoiceChoir said:
In many of the incidents in Europe of late, the authorities have admitted that the attackers were 'known' to them, or on some kind of 'watch list'. If this is the case then let's stop pussy-footing around these people; tag them - restrict and monitor their movements; deport or detain them if possible and necessary.


I'm not sure you understand the prevalence issue, or that of resource. To monitor a single person 24/7 requires 27 specially trained officers. There are at any one time over 3,000 active threats to be monitored, and some sources say another 20,000 lie on the periphery. Those 3,000 threats alone would require almost the entire UK police force in order to be fully monitored.


Perhaps we could try something along the lines of the East German model of policing.
 
I'm not sure you understand the prevalence issue, or that of resource. To monitor a single person 24/7 requires 27 specially trained officers. There are at any one time over 3,000 active threats to be monitored, and some sources say another 20,000 lie on the periphery. Those 3,000 threats alone would require almost the entire UK police force in order to be fully monitored.

Apologies if I wasn't clear - I was talking about electronic tagging, not physical surveillance.
 
Trying to talk about internal European problems as a way to be dismissive of this issue would be like me saying "well, my younger brother used to sometimes drink too much and break things in the house and take a swing at me from time to time, so why should I stop permitting one new violent crack addict stranger with a felony rap seet per week to move in from off the street?"

For starters, your brother is your brother.
Oh look, an apologist for christian terrorism.

Yeah, christians are not "my brother" in comparison to muslims. No matter how much you might want me to think of them that way, I will not.

we should all at least be able to agree that step 1 is to STOP LETTING MORE MUSLIMS IN.
No, I do not agree to that at all. Nor is it ever going to actually happen.
 
I still find it irritating to see the word "liberal" used to mean some hard left ideology.


As Peter Cook said, America has a two party system: they have the Republican Party, which is a bit like our Conservative Party, and the Democratic Party, which is a bit like our Conservative Party.
 
https://youtu.be/3ChjfFx_zLU

Short video from Tommy Robinson about this, with lots of cursing.

For those unaware of who Tommy Robinson is and who wish to spare themselves several minutes of spittle-flecked racist invective here is a snippet from Tommy Robinson's Wikipedia page:

Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982), known by the pseudonym Tommy Robinson and also going by the names Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris, is the co-founder and former spokesman and leader of the English Defence League (EDL) "street protest" movement. He also founded the European Defence League, and for a short time in 2012 was joint party vice-chairman of the British Freedom Party. He led the EDL from 2009 until 8 October 2013, when he was persuaded to leave the organisation and discuss alternative ways of tackling extremism with the think tank Quilliam. He continued as an activist, and in 2015 became involved with the development of Pegida UK, a British chapter of the German-based Pegida organisation, presenting a stated purpose to counter the "Islamisation of our countries".
 
It is silly to conflate separatist movements and Christian groups from Europe with Islamic terror. Those were internally generated problems involving natives. No society is perfect, and you do your best to deal with those internal issues.

Those groups also tended to have clear political goals and generally used much more discretion in their choices of targets.

On the other hand, you've got Islam which is:

1.) Alien to Europe and alien in a much more significant way than Christianity was because it is not only an outsider ideology, it is an outsider ideology coming in on the backs of a huge number of actual outsiders. Christianity came in and was adopted by Europeans, big difference.

2.) Deliberately targeting the softest targets, going after defenseless, unsuspecting civilians and in many cases even women and children. Inflicting gruesome torture on victims like removing eyes and genitalia of victims in the Bataclan theater. Slitting throats of people on London bridge yesterday. I'm no expert on the Basque stuff but my understanding is that the IRA typically would target English police & military, or politicians, stuff like that. Not saying that's right, but they had a clear political agenda and weren't trying to take over England or deliberately kill women and children, though I do understand that sometimes their target choices were awful.

3.) Other than conquest of Europe and the world, it's hard to argue that the Islamic terrorists have a clear political agenda. Many people try to make it seem equivalent to the IRA or something by saying "oh they're just reacting to interventions in the middle east" but his doesn't pass the sniff test because of how much violence they do in countries like Sweden, how much internal violence directed at people like Egyptian Christians and Hindus in India, etc. they are known for... and the fact that our meddling in their nations is a REACTION to them being like that, not the cause of it. Again... their agenda is conquest, not redress of grievance. I expect Dublin to have a major Islamic terror attack in the next couple of years. What will be the justification for that? It will simply be a result of them having Muslims there. Simple.

Trying to talk about internal European problems as a way to be dismissive of this issue would be like me saying "well, my younger brother used to sometimes drink too much and break things in the house and take a swing at me from time to time, so why should I stop permitting one new violent crack addict stranger with a felony rap seet per week to move in from off the street?"

For starters, your brother is your brother. You don't get to choose who your family are, and to a certain extent you simply have to deal with their issues. Nothing's forcing you to let crack addict felons you don't know move in off the street. Secondly, their issues are far worse than your alcoholic brother's are and you're letting more of them in all the time.

I see people in this thread talking about what we do to stop this. No matter what your perspective is, or how abhorrent you find my views on how to stop this (I essentially wouldn't rule ANYTHING out to stop it, let your imagination go wild.) we should all at least be able to agree that step 1 is to STOP LETTING MORE MUSLIMS IN.

You dont seriously mean that do you?
 
We know that's not true because the protests surrounding these alleged freedoms are not evident when it comes to anything other than Islam. If a person cares about free speech then they defend all free speech, not just their little pet virtue-signalling projects.

This is not true. These very forums are full of various forms of protest and arguments about what the borderlines are. It may indeed be virtue signaling, but it's a virtue worth signaling about.

Here are a few non-Islam examples:
Kathy Griffin holds up a bloody Trump mask; should she pay a penalty?
Professor takes the "wrong side" in a free speech issue; should he be fired?
Someone in Switzerland "likes" a facebook post; should they face criminal charges?

And those are only the active threads that come to mind.
 
Hard to know how to prevent such attacks in future, by that I mean the technique they are using not their motivations. We can't have crash barriers on all public streets and roads. Tragically once one of these attacks was successful the technique would be copied.

Well, Google and their like are developing a technological response. If I was investing in self driving car technology I would be looking for Government funding on a security basis. Cars that will not do 50mph in a built up area and will not drive into pedestrians.
 
Well, Google and their like are developing a technological response. If I was investing in self driving car technology I would be looking for Government funding on a security basis. Cars that will not do 50mph in a built up area and will not drive into pedestrians.

This is pretty much what people are looking at for Stockholm after the truck attack there. According to a report I heard on the radio, they are looking at imposing a speed limit on all pedestrian streets, so no vehicle can drive faster than a certain speed.
 

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