Re: Re: Re: Karen
farmermike said:
Atlas, you should be a big fan of God's fierce and uncomprimising side. Because God is often sold as the Bid Daddy in the sky, does not change the often uncomfortable truths about his nature as presented by Him in the Bible.
Karen,
I commend you. It can't be easy returning the hard questions this group sends to you. You might very much like an excursion into comparative religion. I can recommend Buddhism from personal experience. I really thought the contrasts with Christianity were illuminating. It struck a chord in me that there was a people who never knew original sin and hence never had a need for a savior. It was really an expanding experience in a lot of ways and it left me with a deeper appreciation of the teachings of Jesus because I had been exposed to an alternative.
Even as a Christian I had little appreciation for the God of the old testament. I was always more interested in peace and light and interested in how to lead a good life than in having God smite my enemies or hearing how He has done others.
Jesus had some good things to say on the subject... at least the way my parish priest explained it. I think that was the best. Not reading the Bible and having a good guy explain how God loved me. And why I should be on His side. It made a lot of sense in grade school.
I drifted away and back. The thought of God in your life has some allure. Taking responsibility for my own thoughts does too and a battle raged. Learning something of Buddhism helped and then in college, I took a few philosophy courses and some theater classes and I had a real awakening.
I don't probably have to explain the philosophy reference but perhaps I should clarify what I mean by theater. I took mostly acting from the department, that is, no set design, lighting, or costume stuff - just acting. I was in several plays besides and I was amazed that actors can really feel real emotions if that is the style they adhere to. Some actors don't, they merely get their exterior to look like the interior is experiencing a feeling, but many actors search their experience and dredge up fear and love and anger and really feel them and their exterior accurately portrays the interior feeling.
But there was more. People like a good story. Even if they've seen it before. They will take part in a performance as an audience and hope to be moved by the experience. I remember a moment on stage when with a silent gesture I had the audience's total focus. I felt a rush, it's hard to explain. But I knew they felt it too.
Church services are to a large part theater. If you can get a preacher with a little fire and the ability to crack a tear at his own telling of the joyful and sorrowful mysteries of your faith, you can't not believe the guy. He can play you like a fiddle.
And that ain't all bad. It can be a little dangerous. You might be listening to Jim Jones. But you might be listening to someone who really makes you want to live well, love much, and help others.
There is nothing wrong there. It can be dishonest if you know you are deluding yourself. I don't think you know that. But I came to know it. There was nothing to that old testament god that had anything to teach along the lines of live well, love much, and help others. I kept to the new testament when I studied. That shrank down to the gospels and then I focused more on what the Holy Spirit was telling me. Skip the Bible. What do my experiences in the world and my meditations tell me is true.
That's a dangerous drift for someone like you. But everybody has their own way. I drifted out of Christianity for the last time taking with it a desire to continue to live right, to live well, to love well too.
That's what is important. It's not whether you get that from God or not. It's whether you live well or not. These IslamoFascist terrorists know God but it is that old testament god that isn't about love or living well. Our jails are full of Christians; embezzlers, wife beaters, you name it. All the religion and none of the wisdom.
If you find wisdom and love and joy and truth in Jesus, I'm all for you. There are cracks in that structure that you can explore if you are fearless. It's not for everybody. You've mentioned Pascal's wager and if you think that is well structured then you're doing the right thing.
Hang around these boards though and take part in some discussions where you're not on the defensive and you'll witness some great alternative thought that is very enriching stuff. Not an excess of it but it's here, it really is.
You should register yourself and untie Mike so he can play too. There is plenty of room.
