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Another shining Rick Perry moment

eeyore1954 said:
For the most part it seems to me if a conservative misspoke they are an idiot, they don't know geography, they are doped up on pain pills, etc, etc
If President Obama puts the Port of Jacksonville in the Gulf or talks about the 57 states he misspoke but he is a great orator anyway.
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I'm glad you have it straight now.
 
eeyore1954 said:
For the most part it seems to me if a conservative misspoke they are an idiot, they don't know geography, they are doped up on pain pills, etc, etc
If President Obama puts the Port of Jacksonville in the Gulf or talks about the 57 states he misspoke but he is a great orator anyway.
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See I don't think Perry's brain farts say anything about him intellectually (other things do that), but it does make me question his ability to sell his product, himself. For me the occasional flub is a laugh and move on (or, if you're on the other side of the aisle a cheap shot you think is continually funny years after everyone else has pretty much forgotten about it), but for Perry specifically he and his handlers had to know that his ability to communicate was going to be watched after his poor showing during the 12 primaries. If he can't even improve his ability to communicate his message why should anyone vote for him?
 
Olowkow said:
I thought you were referring to the first instance, the Tonight Show, that is seen on the video linked below. I was not familiar with the second, in this video.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/tonight-show-not-the-first-time-president-obama-made-gulf-gaffe/

The first, with Leno, seemed to me to be just kind of throwing out thoughts, and I recall that some news source at the time inserted "and in" to read "and in places like Jacksonville, etc". They then retracted their correction, in order to prevent accusations of bias.

I think I assume that Obama knows enough about geography of the US to understand that he means, "All along the Gulf, and in places like..." However, the second instance is much less clear, and I think an argument can be made that he was incorrectly stating that these cites were on the Gulf. It's more likely however, that he was just spouting memorized stuff and left out some of the important links, who knows?

I remember the big flap over "you didn't build that..." during the campaign, and that one was clearly a red herring by people who don't quite understand how to read between the lines and interpret fuzzy reference in extemporaneous speaking, combined of course with an Obama aversion.

I think the Perry and the Obama lapsus are superficially similar in certain respects--memorized talking points etc. But for Perry to visit a state, after much preparation and references to La., and hopefully his staff's prodding to mention certain key Louisiana hot button issues, then absentmindedly forget where he actually has landed...that is not impossible to imagine. But it is downright odd to then say that he had said "Louisiana", rather than "...what did I say? I meant Louisiana. Sorry. Haven't had my coffee yet.:)"

It is also true that is is odd that Obama would leave such an obvious error hanging, but I generally think he has a lot on his mind and may often be speaking on autopilot--could be the same for Perry, sure, but his need for painkillers troubles me.

It's just too much of a stretch to seriously propose that Obama doesn't know which cities are not Gulf ports, and to then think that had Leno confronted him with, "Gulf Ports, really?" and have him say in surprised disbelief, "No, those cities are not Gulf Ports, what are you talking about?" I would think it would be reason for some to raise their eyebrows.

I suppose I give Obama the benefit of the doubt because of his obvious speaking skills, vocabulary and intelligence, while in the case of Perry I don't, largely because of his previous behavior of seeming not to care about facts, and his reliance on supernatural notions and biblical superstitious nonsense in his governing.

These cases are more of a question of a man's ability for coherent thinking than any question of intelligence or political ingenuity.
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Excellent post, Olowkow. I'm pretty much in agreement. His recovery didn't have any appearance of back-pedaling. It looked a lot more like he thought he'd said Louisiana. I think he glanced at his prepared text, hooked onto the "in..." but it was the "in Florida" part that he read first and then he read through the rest in the right order, repeating "in Florida".

Obviously just a gaff in reading. And I think he didn't make a wisecrack out of it, which is very easy for people who are constantly on the road on speaking engagements, because he sincerely didn't even realize he'd said the wrong state. The "yeah, I got that" sounded more like he was puzzled as to why these people were bringing up something so obvious.

If that's the worst thing that comes out of Perry's mouth he's having a good month. Try listening to his policies and ideas if you want to see gobsmacking idiocy in action.
 
eeyore1954 said:
For the most part it seems to me if a conservative misspoke they are an idiot, they don't know geography, they are doped up on pain pills, etc, etcIf President Obama puts the Port of Jacksonville in the Gulf or talks about the 57 states he misspoke but he is a great orator anyway.
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Meet my Aunt Sally. :)You are aware that this is just a straw man argument.

I think Perry is very misinformed on a wide range of issues such as gays, climate change, women's rights, willfully ignorant and pandering to fringe elements in his party, and I don't agree with his philosophy of using religion as a political device.

But I do not believe he is an idiot and have never said so. He's a canny politician. Nor do I believe he is generally ignorant of US geography, but he is not a great orator, while on occasion Obama has proven himself to be pretty darn good at extemporaneous speaking, as the recent rant on the Martin case showed. His acceptance speech in Grant Park was arguably Lincolnesque, though mostly read, but the delivery was stunning... that's just my opinion.

I guess to a conservative, hearing Perry speak about defunding Obamacare or ridding the world, or his state, of abortion or extolling Jesus is just as inspirational, but I am free to disagree.

I would like to understand exactly what each would have to say about their own errors, and I freely admit bias. I am also very concerned if any sitting president were to govern while drugged or dependent on drugs, just as my airline pilot on Darvon would make me nervous. It was learned that JFK often needed pain killers. That is not acceptable to me either.

"doped up" is not the way I would put it, and "Perry's being drugged" was clearly speculation on my part. I cannot speculate on Obama's being drugged, since I have no evidence that he has the need.

I agree that AP's insertion of "and in" was just an improper act by a news service, and they did retract it. Yet it's downright silly to claim that:
Liberal Bias in Media Causes American Distrust of Government
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:)
Distrust of the news reporting perhaps.

But what is often claimed as "Liberal Bias" in the media seems to me not as clear cut as that possibly was. To me, the bias is most often towards rational thinking, not necessarily politically left leanings.

The AP inserted its own words to make it seem as if Obama had mentioned the ports in comparison, not as he actually did, listing what he thought were gulf ports.
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I'm not so sure that the extended claim of this is true though, without further evidence.

Many media sources give Liberal figures these kinds of help very frequently.
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thaiboxerken said:
Perry is an idiot. I base this in his policies, not his words.
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Lots of idiotic politics and policies for sure. He's a fool, buffoon, laughing stock, ignorant, nutcase, wingnut and not very nice.

I'm thinking an idiot would be overall less successful, sort of like Spiro Agnew...now there was an idiot.:D

Otherwise, I generally find that I agree with your points of view.;)
 
I haven't looked at the video. Suffice it to say that, if the flub is as reported, it is a whole lotta nuthin'.

Perry has said a lot more things that were prepared and carefully planned ... and still drop-dead stupid. If you want to call the guy an idiot, call him an idiot with respect to the things he meant to say.

People who travel around and speak often lose track of where they are, what they are doing and what they have said. This happens to politicians, national reporters and performing artists, to name a few.

I'm not sure who said this--it might have been Linda Ellerbee--that if you travel around the country, it can be useful to write a note to yourself on hotel stationery to remind you WHERE you are and WHY you are there. Something like: "You are in Little Rock, Arkansas. You are covering a speech by the President about disaster aid." Apparently this little trick helps prevent confusion and brings comfort.

I've witnessed a few flubs of this type myself. President Gerald Ford gave a speech at Iowa State University and almost called it "Ohio State." The groans from the crowd prompted him to correct himself. The flub Ford made happens a lot. A prominent stand-up comic performing in a Des Moines suburb made a wisecrack about a town that he wasn't in. The audience laughed, thinking it was part of the act, but when he did it again, it was clear the comic really didn't know where he was!
 
Elizabeth I said:
Evidence? :D

He's the governor of my state and I believe he is an idiot.



Exactly.
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Somehow I never imagined I'd ever be in a position where I had to come across as defending Rick Perry.:D

At the base of my reasoning is something I think I learned from Matt Dillahunty on The Atheist Experience. We need to avoid hyperbole so that our antagonists don't have cheap easy arguments to disarm our arguments. For instance, we can't call Fred Phelps a hypocrite, unless we want to redefine the word...because in the final analysis, he is not a hypocrite, by definition. He actually does believe the batcrap crazy stuff he sends his minions out to peddle.

Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have.[1] Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.
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It is fair to say, though that he is a bigoted douche, since that is more accurate.

We saw right here that someone rears his head claiming we were calling Perry "an idiot" and actually coming up with a reasonable counter argument. Now I personally saw it as a total straw man, since I had not used the word "idiot", purposely.

An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.
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Now I would call Perry a "fool", since he has been fairly productive in his own way, and has not failed because of stupidity. He will eventually fail because of a lack of cleverness or wisdom.
An idiot differs from a fool (who is unwise)
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Foolishness is the lack or failure of wisdom and of making proper careful choices. In this sense, it differs from stupidity, which is the lack of intelligence.[1] An act of foolishness is called folly. Foolish talk is called stultiloquence.

On the other hand, Nixon's vice president Spiro Agnew was an idiot, a brute and a dolt. He was a complete crook before during and after becoming vice president, and never really caught on to what sort of behavior was needed to survive, so he totally failed because of a basic lack of intelligence.

We also need to be cautious of underestimating those we see as "stupid", since more than likely they are merely foolish, and not lacking in the tools of subterfuge or elaborate and potentially harmful behavior. Stupidity may imply a lack of ability for proactive harm, but to one's peril, that may also be sort of like poking the dullard looking crocodile.
 
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Olowkow said:
Somehow I never imagined I'd ever be in a position where I had to come across as defending Rick Perry.:D

At the base of my reasoning is something I think I learned from Matt Dillahunty on The Atheist Experience. We need to avoid hyperbole so that our antagonists don't have cheap easy arguments to disarm our arguments. For instance, we can't call Fred Phelps a hypocrite, unless we want to redefine the word...because in the final analysis, he is not a hypocrite, by definition. He actually does believe the batcrap crazy stuff he sends his minions out to peddle.

It is fair to say, though that he is a bigoted douche, since that is more accurate.

We saw right here that someone rears his head claiming we were calling Perry "an idiot" and actually coming up with a reasonable counter argument. Now I personally saw it as a total straw man, since I had not used the word "idiot", purposely.

Now I would call Perry a "fool", since he has been fairly productive in his own way, and has not failed because of stupidity. He will eventually fail because of a lack of cleverness or wisdom.
Foolishness is the lack or failure of wisdom and of making proper careful choices. In this sense, it differs from stupidity, which is the lack of intelligence.[1] An act of foolishness is called folly. Foolish talk is called stultiloquence.

On the other hand, Nixon's vice president Spiro Agnew was an idiot, a brute and a dolt. He was a complete crook before during and after becoming vice president, and never really caught on to what sort of behavior was needed to survive, so he totally failed because of a basic lack of intelligence.

We also need to be cautious of underestimating those we see as "stupid", since more than likely they are merely foolish, and not lacking in the tools of subterfuge or elaborate and potentially harmful behavior. Stupidity may imply a lack of ability for proactive harm, but to one's peril, that may also be sort of like poking the dullard looking crocodile.
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I don't deny Perry's native cunning, or his ability to conduct dishonest/unethical activities under the radar. I do think he has no appreciation for or understanding of intellectual activities, whether educating children or conducting science. In my book that makes him an idiot.
 
Elizabeth I said:
I don't deny Perry's native cunning, or his ability to conduct dishonest/unethical activities under the radar. I do think he has no appreciation for or understanding of intellectual activities, whether educating children or conducting science. In my book that makes him an idiot.
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Yes ma'am. :)
 
As someone who periodically has to eat fair amounts of opiates, the "painkillers" explanation sounds plausible to me. Especially if he had any alcohol (who knows, maybe he's like Truman and has a shot of bourbon every day) - they can synergize viciously. Not only that, but if he is still in pain despite the painkillers, that can be quite disorienting.

But it might just as well be regular absent-mindedness and lack of focus. Still, that would definitely be aided by drugs.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
As someone who periodically has to eat fair amounts of opiates, the "painkillers" explanation sounds plausible to me. Especially if he had any alcohol (who knows, maybe he's like Truman and has a shot of bourbon every day) - they can synergize viciously. Not only that, but if he is still in pain despite the painkillers, that can be quite disorienting.

But it might just as well be regular absent-mindedness and lack of focus. Still, that would definitely be aided by drugs.
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I always think of him as more of a pain than in pain.
 
By shining moment, I am pretty certain you mean he left a big shiny crap on his chair or he feasted on one.
 
The really sad thing about this is that Rick Perry is typical for a Republican leader.
 
Elizabeth I said:
I'm sorry, was I snippy? If so, I apologize. Rick Perry brings out the worst in me. :blush:
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Oh, no, not at all. I thought it was funny. :)

I understand perfectly. I'm just trying to make a semantic/pedantic point. It's the linguist in me. Incurable.
 
thaiboxerken said:
The really sad thing about this is that Rick Perry is typical for a Republican leader.
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"Republican leader"? What that kemo sabe? Me hear echo chamber hoof beats.

Actually there may be a bit of light in a seemingly endless tunnel.

Eric Cantor emerges as a reasonable man. (??)
 
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