Another Antifa Call for Violence

I Am The Scum said:
Here's what you seem to be missing:

"Antifa/BLM is just as bad (or maybe even worse) than the nazis/klan" is a mainstream right-wing talking point. The claim is getting some deserved pushback, and you're complaining about the low bar? Take it up with the people who actually believe that nonsense.
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Hmm. That might very well be a right-wing talking point.

On the other hand, however, you seem to be conflating that with people who oppose the view of "Antifa/BLM is not as bad as the nazis/klan so whatever violence they do is okay"

Some people, myself included, aren't sanguine about positions that rely on the ends justifying the means.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Hmm. That might very well be a right-wing talking point.

On the other hand, however, you seem to be conflating that with people who oppose the view of "Antifa/BLM is not as bad as the nazis/klan so whatever violence they do is okay"

Some people, myself included, aren't sanguine about positions that rely on the ends justifying the means.
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You should be relieved then, because roving gangs of antifa raiders is a fiction created by the right wing propaganda machine. Nobody is coming to cut your head off for being insufficiently woke
 
Emily's Cat said:
The only question is: are you a criminal?
If not, state surveillance is not a danger to you.
It's not complicated.
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Everyone who is even a little bit interesting has been at least a little bit unlawful.
The law would love to set itself up as the entity that gets to punish or forgive all your transgressions, even the every-day ones. It’s the same power-grabbing deal as religions that tell you you need forgiveness for having typical human urges.

So no, I don’t feel antifa is subject to this sort of overreach into everyday life. We don’t find ourselves getting facist because we noticed Annie looks really hot in a short skirt or because we wanted to drive a little faster, like everyone else does.
 
Arcade22 said:
Guess I don't need to worry about neo-nazis attacking Jews, Black people or antifa either then.
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If you can't tell the fundamental difference between getting attacked for choosing to be a Nazi and getting attacked for being born Black or Jewish, I can't help you.

But I'm fine with identifying those who attack Antifa as Nazis.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
The only question is: are you a criminal?
If not, state surveillance is not a danger to you.
It's not complicated.
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It is actually a little more complicated than that. It doesn't help you much that you are not a criminal if the president nevertheless insists that you are a terrorist. When he was asked about Nazis, he was much more eager to see "very good people" or "very fine people."

When I wrote the OP of this thread, we were still at a point in time when white supremacists made up antifa calls for violence. Now we have Bunker Boy making up stories about a 75-year-old victim of police violence.

Those times when "state surveillance is not a danger to you" if only you are not "a criminal" no longer exist - if they ever did.
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
If you can't tell the fundamental difference between getting attacked for choosing to be a Nazi and getting attacked for being born Black or Jewish, I can't help you.
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Attacking people for their opinions and thoughts is pretty much on the same level as far as violent extremism is considered. It's not as if two wrongs make a right, or that one kind of violent political extremist thug is any better than another.

But I'm fine with identifying those who attack Antifa as Nazis.
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I'm not sure where that came from but okay whatever you say.
 
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Arcade22 said:
Attacking people for their opinions and thoughts is pretty much on the same level as far as violent extremism is considered. It's not as if two wrongs make a right, or that one kind of violent political extremist thug is any better than another.
.
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No, it's not the same level.
It is hard for me to understand that someone can't see difference.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
No, it's not the same level.
It is hard for me to understand that someone can't see difference.
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The trick is the abstraction: to reduce everything to "opinions and thoughts":
"Attacking people for their opinions and thoughts is pretty much on the same level as far as violent extremism is considered."

You know, 'some people just happen to think and kittens and babies are cute, whereas others lean more towards the idea that all Jews and people of African descent should be exterminated. You can't attack anybody for that, can you? Just because they happen to have an opinion that differs from your own, you intolerant bigot! If you insist on attacking genocidal racists, that just proves how intolerant you are!'

It is not really that Arcade22 is unable to see the difference between different opinions. It's that reducing white supremacism to an opinion is his deliberate technique, his way of turning white supremacists into victims that need his protection against the barbarous anti-fascists. The right-wing snowflake mania.
The same line of thinking would insist that Mein Kampf and The Turner Diaries are just books: 'And you can't have anything about books, can you?! That's fascist!'

It is no coincidence that he can insist that Sweden's national epidemiologist represents scientific objectivity in spite of all sensible epidemiologists in the world contradicting him. It is very consistent with this kind of biased thinking:
The senior citizens in Sweden dying of Covid-19 are not the victims here. On the contrary: Criticizing the poor epidemiologist who is standing up for objective truth by letting the virus have its way with people makes him the real victim. He is the one who is under attack!
 
The Great Zaganza said:
No, it's not the same level.
It is hard for me to understand that someone can't see difference.
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Denying people freedom of opinions and thoughts just because you find theirs objectionable, which is exactly what you do, is certainly just as awful as denying people protection from violence just because of their ancestry.

Why do you hate freedom?
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
arcade22 said:
Attacking people for their opinions and thoughts is pretty much on the same level as far as violent extremism is considered. It's not as if two wrongs make a right, or that one kind of violent political extremist thug is any better than another.
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No, it's not the same level.
It is hard for me to understand that someone can't see difference.
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This reminds me of a line from the Maltese Falcon where Spade points out that Gutman's threats are no good unless the threat of death is behind them, and he doesn't believe it is.

The only reason people shut up about their opinions is because they are being threatened with harm. The threat only works because the it is believable. The only reason it is believable is because sometimes it is followed through.

I'm not sure that it is a sign of great moral superiority that generally the threat is sufficient that one doesn't have to bother with following through.
 
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Arcade22 said:
Denying people freedom of opinions and thoughts just because you find theirs objectionable, which is exactly what you do, is certainly just as awful as denying people protection from violence just because of their ancestry.

Why do you hate freedom?
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Let's try something milder. Suppose we have two employers, A and B. They make the following statements:

Employer A: "I absolutely will not hire an Asian person."
Employer B: "I absolutely will not hire a racist."

Do you believe that Employer A and Employer B are exhibiting morally equivalent discrimination in their hiring methods?
 
Some idiots made the fake flyer below and a couple neighbors fell for it. I get the see something say something. But when I asked the woman who posted it, where did she get it, she snipped: Do your own research. :rolleyes:

[imgw=600]https://i.imgur.com/bEeVpmf.png[/imgw]


That's an off-leash dog park. That should be interesting.
 
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Do Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates often go there to walk their own dogs? :)
 
shuttlt said:
This reminds me of a line from the Maltese Falcon where Spade points out that Gutman's threats are no good unless the threat of death is behind them, and he doesn't believe it is.

The only reason people shut up about their opinions is because they are being threatened with harm. The threat only works because the it is believable. The only reason it is believable is because sometimes it is followed through.

I'm not sure that it is a sign of great moral superiority that generally the threat is sufficient that one doesn't have to bother with following through.
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Much like Arcade22, you seem to find it difficult to distinguish between, on the one hand, "opinions and thoughts" and, on the other hand, political objectives. White supremacy is not a whim or a predilection:
'Wouldn't this park be so much prettier without all those black and brown faces? Well, maybe it's just me. I always had these idiosyncratic, capricous aesthetics.'
Or, as Arcade22 would put it: Freedom!
 
Arcade22 said:
Denying people freedom of opinions and thoughts just because you find theirs objectionable, which is exactly what you do, is certainly just as awful as denying people protection from violence just because of their ancestry.

Why do you hate freedom?
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you are making the standard mistake of thinking that tolerance is a good in itself.
It is not.

Tolerance is a reciprocal pact, and when Nazi's reject tolerance towards certain groups based on factors they have no control over, there is neither reason nor virtue to extend tolerance towards them.
If you tolerate intolerance by some you have already given up on the idea of tolerance.
Groups like AntiFa make it clear to Facist groups that they can't hide behind free speech and appeals to tolerance to undermine free speech and tolerance.
 
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