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Another 9/11-Holocaust Denial link

Nick Terry

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This just came through via Google Alerts. Since there is a 9/11 Truther connection, it seems worth posting here.

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20071006/VALLEYNEWS/71005009

TV staff balks at holocaust denial film

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By Charles Agar
Glenwood Springs, CO Colorado
October 6, 2007
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ASPEN — A controversial Holocaust-denial film is raising questions about free speech at Grassroots Television, an Aspen community-access station.
Steve Campbell, founder of Citizens for 9/11 Truth, asked the station to air “Judea Declares War on Germany: A Critical Look at World War II” on Monday, but Grassroots board members stopped the screening.
The one-hour program features Dr. Frederick Töben, an Australian national and member of the Adelaide Institute, an organization that denies that the Holocaust happened.
“This film is offensive not only to Jews in the world but to any sensible person,” said Grassroots Executive Director John Masters.
But the question of airing the film he called “like an homage to [Joseph] Goebbels” has stirred a “healthy debate” at the community TV station, Masters said.
“Judea Declares War on Germany” will be pre-empted by an Aspen High School football game and delayed until after an upcoming Grassroots board meeting.
Questioning historical assumptions about the Holocaust brands anyone a “hater,” according to Campbell.
“I think there’s a lot of preconceived ideas that have been indoctrinated into people’s minds as to what the Holocaust is all about,” Campbell said. Showing the film would give people an opportunity to decide for themselves, he said.

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Apparently he's been getting away with "Zionists and Mossad did 9-11" films; it's only when he came up with the absolute Holocaust Denial film that he got into trouble.

The videos have raised complaints from some who call them anti-Semitic, and Campbell is outspoken in his views.

"I think this was all planned way in advance," he said, "and of course our government is largely controlled by the Zionists and the oil interests, and those two elements are pivotal in the carrying out of 9/11."

He blames a mainstream media "largely controlled by Jewish interests," for failing to question government accounts.

But boy, can you see the old 4.6% writ large in this aside?

"His view of who perpetrated 9/11 was different from the Roaring Fork Peace Coalition's," said Calvin Lee, one of the group's founders, "so it was not appropriate for him to use our resources to promote his ideas. It was only difficult because up until that point, Steve Campbell had gone to every meeting of the Roaring Fork Peace Coalition. He was always there and helpful. So we didn't want to get crosswise with him, necessarily. We valued his participation. But his views were so different from the Roaring Fork Peace Coalition's that we encouraged him to form his own group."

Campbell did, but he was disappointed by the group's response.

"No matter how much I presented the evidence, they couldn't see it, and I'm very disappointed by that," he said.

Typical Troofer.
 
I believe in free speech and all, but I believe this is one of those situations where the line is crossed. Blatant lies should never be broadcast in documentary form, especially when the information presented is so easily debunked.
 
Apparently he's been getting away with "Zionists and Mossad did 9-11" films; it's only when he came up with the absolute Holocaust Denial film that he got into trouble.



But boy, can you see the old 4.6% writ large in this aside?



Typical Troofer.

Sorta sounds like a poster we see in the SLC Blog comments a lot. Hmmmm....:rolleyes:
Nahhhh......no mention of anyone dancing.
 
This may actually be part of why Da Twoof is spiralling into the toilet. Those few idealistic peace activists who had started to buy into it smelled the Nazi woo-woo on it and woke up from their hypnotized state.
 
This just came through via Google Alerts. Since there is a 9/11 Truther connection, it seems worth posting here.
(...)
“Judea Declares War on Germany: A Critical Look at World War II” on Monday, but Grassroots board members stopped the screening.
The one-hour program features Dr. Frederick Töben, an Australian national and member of the Adelaide Institute, an organization that denies that the Holocaust happened.

Oh, thats that wonderful title where Töben introduces a "Zyklon-B experiment" that is almost as silly as some of the things the 911-crowd comes up with. I just love the scene where the "doctor" does a "health check" on the participants, by putting a stetoscope against there arms (with their clothes still on of course).
 
The one-hour program features Dr. Frederick Töben, an Australian national and member of the Adelaide Institute, an organization that denies that the Holocaust happened.


Not another Australian nutjob. :(

I hadn’t heard of this lot before but there’s a bit of background on the Adelaide Institute and the people behind it here. Their website has the usual 9/11 CT bollocks and more besides. Also they’ve apparently run afoul of our racial vilification laws - there was a discussion on Radio National’s Law Report about the ramifications for free speech (transcript).
 
Oh, thats that wonderful title where Töben introduces a "Zyklon-B experiment" that is almost as silly as some of the things the 911-crowd comes up with. I just love the scene where the "doctor" does a "health check" on the participants, by putting a stetoscope against there arms (with their clothes still on of course).

The Toeben video is one of the few cases where Holocaust deniers have tried the 9/11 woo-woo tactic of a YouTube video.

As with many 9/11 YT scam videos, the trickery is so blatant as to discredit the argument totally. The video tried to claim that after an hours' exposure to HCN, four young men could emerge from a gas chamber unharmed.

Alas, this was what could be seen in a before/after comparison

Entering...
amalek1.jpg


Exiting an 'hour' later....
amalek2.jpg


I.e., the angle of the shadow didn't budge one inch from what can be determined.

The similarities don't end there; although Toeben is a regular collaborator with other deniers, one of the more scientifically trained (MSc in chemistry, nearly-completed PhD) deniers, Germar Rudolf, refuted the idea that this experiment could be genuine. In other words, the usual spectacle of a denier sounding reasonable when debunking another deniers' ludicrous claims.

What makes the video so amusing is that it was standard practice among HDers for years to claim that HCN was too poisonous to be used. Never let a glaring contradiction get in the way of a pseudo-argument...

At another forum (free-speech but with a strong racist/WN bent), some of the resident Holocaust deniers clung to the possibility that the video might be genuine for nearly 200 posts after I introduced the screen captures above.

The woo was strong with them, clearly.:p
 
Oh, the denial-movement doesn't seem to have the concept "Disinfo-agent" I gather... :D.

It doesn't have a formal concept of 'disinfo agent' because there simply aren't that many active Holocaust deniers. However, in debating deniers elsewhere, it is remarkable how willing they are to throw overboard any of the name revisionists if one of their statements proves inconvenient for the purposes of current argument.

Thus I've had deniers declare that Mark Weber, the director of the IHR, was probably a disinfo agent/shill (forget the exact workds used); while someone else declared that Carlo Mattogno, who is the only denier actually semi-capable of doing proper archival research, was obviously in the pay of you-know-who.

There is a much greater reliance on arguments to counter-authority among the dwindling band of Holocaust deniers; even though Leuchter was shredded on the witness stand in 1988 they still appeal to his arguments; Faurisson is revered almost like a god and called a 'historian' even though in over one million words of rantings, he manages to cite precisely four unpublished documents.

Nonetheless, when pressed on a specific point, deniers will as the above examples show, abandon reliance on the counter-authority and retreat to 'common sense' reasoning, just like any other woo. As long as the basic tenet is clung to, then no cognitive dissonance will be acknowledged.

I think 9/11 Truthers bring out this probably standard dynamic across all forms of woo and denialism very well because there are so many 'authorities' and so many utterly contradictory theories.

But perhaps another common feature is the proliferation of relatively anonymous propaganda for the 'Twoof'/'Wahrheit'. The idea that there might be a real person behind 'Loose Change' or 'Did Six Million Really Die' doesn't seem to cross their minds, and it would be inconvenient to their fantasies to acknowledge that the authors/film-makers might be fallible individuals, so they prefer to appeal to a super-authority, 'The Truth Movement' or 'Revisionism', the better to avoid acknowledging any cognitive dissonance at all.

On closer examination, the super-authority turns out to be composed of contradictory viewpoints... but they'll never admit that.
 
In the interest of improving health world wide, I would like to invite Herr Toeben to step into that chamber himself and see how well he deals with exposure to his specified dose plus .5% of Zyklon-B.

Nobody who matters could possibly lose anything by the results, one way or the other.
 
Is it better to go to jail for Holocaust denial, or creating child pornography?

(P.S, Who wants to bet that Bermas believes in secret there is 'something fishy' about the evidence?)
 
Is it better to go to jail for Holocaust denial, or creating child pornography?

(P.S, Who wants to bet that Bermas believes in secret there is 'something fishy' about the evidence?)

It's better that people are not jailed for Holocaust denial. It only creates martyrs, and as offensive as they are, merely having a woo interpretation of history should not be criminal. If they incite violence as well, then throw the book at 'em.
 
In the interest of improving health world wide, I would like to invite Herr Toeben to step into that chamber himself and see how well he deals with exposure to his specified dose plus .5% of Zyklon-B.

Nobody who matters could possibly lose anything by the results, one way or the other.

Since deniers have an obsession with diesel engines and how they cannot generate enough CO to kill, the obvious invitation is to a diesel-fume chamber. I think even Toeben is bright enough to know he's lying about HCN; I doubt however that they're all smart enough to realise they might be lying about diesel.
 
I'm still trying to get a grip on the claim that people were put to death for claiming the world was flat...
 
It's better that people are not jailed for Holocaust denial. It only creates martyrs, and as offensive as they are, merely having a woo interpretation of history should not be criminal. If they incite violence as well, then throw the book at 'em.

Which countries jail for Holocaust denial? Austria and I think Germany (it's understandable in these cases); France -- didn't LePen get in trouble? Where else? The David Irving trial in England was about alleged slander/ libel against him (Irving), I think for the accusation that he was a denier. Which he was proved to be. (A surprise result, at least to me. I didn't know the truth was a defense in such cases in England, while it is in the US.)

Is it outright illegal in Israel?

I don't believe there is any interest in imprisoning Holocaust deniers in the US. Though a number of ancient ex-SS have been identified and deported, though it was for lying in their immigration and citizenship papers (the lie being that they were not SS or otherwise involved).
 

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