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Anomolies at ground zero

Arus808 said:
false. please dont comment on things you dont have any clue as to what they mean.

btw, it has several meanings when used in firefighting. Its determined on the situation, the kind of fire they are fighting and the context its used in.
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To be fair, can you source this please?
 
Do you even know what "isolated pockets of fire" means in firefighter lingo, Docker?
 
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Docker said:
You have admitted you lied. Thus, you have admitted you argue with people without even looking at the evidence you cite.

Now could you name one lie that I have told?
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what is your backround to disagree with the NIST report, firefighting and structural damage?
 
Docker said:
You have admitted you lied. Thus, you have admitted you argue with people without even looking at the evidence you cite.

Now could you name one lie that I have told?
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1 lie in a moot point. Big deal. And that isn't admitting to arguing with people without looking at the evidence. That is what you do.

Well the point is that these cars were not near the towers, they werent hit by anything and didn't catch fire.
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First page, second post in this thread. Didn't have to look very long did i?
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
To be fair, can you source this please?
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Im waiting on getting my friend on IM. She just graduated from teh fire academy and is on the 180 day probation period as she gains experience (she's about 90 days into it now). however, since she is green, Im sure she has the technical jargon still fresh in her mind.
 
Garb said:
1 lie in a moot point. Big deal. And that isn't admitting to arguing with people without looking at the evidence. That is what you do.



First page, second post in this thread. Didn't have to look very long did i?
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That was not a lie. That is what I had been told about those cars. If it isn't true that doesn't make me a liar. I believed it to be true.
 
Docker said:
That was not a lie. That is what I had been told about those cars. If it isn't true that doesn't make me a liar. I believed it to be true.
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Well you put it out here as fact so then you are being a liar. If you don't want to be accused of that do your research.
 
Docker, I will ask again my three questions which you have never answered. If you are attempting to argue from any intelligent perspective, these should be very simple and easy to answer.

Are you asserting that NO FIREPROOFING was knocked off by the plane impact? If not, what percentage of fireproofing are you claiming was knocked off by the plane impact? Please be clear.

What was the internal temperature in the impacted floors IN YOUR ANALYSIS?

What parameters precisely did NIST "fiddle with"? How were the values wrong and what should they have been IN YOUR ANALYSIS?
 
Docker said:
Talking of research, youv' got a 10,000 page report to read. Get busy.
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Have you conceded that the firefighters you claim were 'at the impact point' and 'saw only minor fires' were not actually where you claim?
 
I asked my partner, who is a fire captain, about that exchange with Chief Palmer a long time ago.

I gave him the entire exchange and he answered several questions about the meaning of the different terms, etc.

I asked him, among other things, specifically what "lines" and "engines" meant in the context of the exchange.

His response was:

It is quite likely that in this situation, he was requesting two more Pumper (Amerispeak "Engine Company") crews, each bringing a hoseline to assist. "Engine" in this context is short form for "Engine Company", the American version of a Pumper crew (usually 4 men) As I've mentioned before, I spoke with XXXXXXXX at length on this subject, more specifically on 7WTC.

To give you some idea regarding the size of fire two handlines ( the 1 1/2 inch dia. size-38mm) can put out, it would be equivalent to an average sized double garage on fire. So his assessment of the size of fire two handlines could deal with effectively probably (though not neccessarily) was in that size range. There are obviously other factors involved, but they're extraneous to this discussion. If you need a detailed breakdown, I'll be happy to provide it.
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Docker, I asked this above but you didn't answer, although I can see that you're busy. So, I'll ask again: Do you even know what the term "isolated pockets of fire" means in firefighter lingo? I do, and I suspect that it doesn't mean what you think it means.
 
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I remember when i first came on these boards. I was somewhat subjective, now I am somewhat more carefull to back it up now before I "interject with my opinion". The numbers do help to maintain objectivity!!! (emphasis added)!

lh
 
So, 8 to 10 more firefighters on top of what he already had there?
 
Docker said:
Are you implying that desks burning for 56 minutes could cause global collapse in one of the greatest engineering triumphs in history?
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questions, and no answers

zip

did not ever read what the designer said,

the fire did it you failed to check with the guy who was responsible for the unique design of the WTC stucture,

you ask a lot of dumb questions you could look up yourself

have you read nist stuff on 9/11,?

then get to it an when you finish go talk to Robertson
 
The "isolated pockets of fire" refer to the 78th floor South tower - 2 FDNYer
members, Battalion chief Orio Palmer and Fire Marshall Ron Bucca made it
there. Chief Palmer has served in the district for a number of years before
making chief and was familar with WTC. Bucca after 1993 bombing had
studied building plans (refer Peter Lance book - 1000 years for Revenge (hope got name correct)). FDNY men would carry about 90 lbs of equipment
(bunker gear, SCBA, tools) while climbing stairs. Palmer had found a working
freight elevator which ran to 40th floor, also as chief would only carry 55-60
lbs (only bunker gear + scba, no hose or tools) - also was marathon runner.
Bucca as Marshall would only have bunker gear, no scba, maybe only a coat
Was reserve officer in special forces unit - again very fit. Both men got to
78 - this floor had been hit by wing tip of UAL175, about 150 people were
in it waiting for elevators, this was sky lobby for elevator transfers. Many
killed or injured by debris hurled by impact. Palmer and Bucca were able to
get there. Main impact point and body of fire was from 80 to 83 floors. So
when moonbats start barking about this bring up that most of fire was
several floors above them. FDNY when fighting high raise fires assumes
that hose team can extinguish 2500-3000 sq ft with 2 1/2" line (takes min
of 3 men to handle it). Each floor at WTC was over 40,000 sq ft! Also most
of standpipe risers had been cut by impact - no water!
 
Define anomaly.
  • deviation from the normal or common order or form or rule
As it has been pointed out by countless cters on countless less times no building has ever collapsed due to fire and as we all know no single 110 story building as ever been hit by a plane at high speed, suffered massive fires and collapsed. It is an anomaly.

Also since there is nothing at all that has even happened on this scale before there is absolute now way of gauging it to anything else. There is nothing to compare it to. It is not as though anybody can say “hey well the last time it happened, there was no damage to the cars that was parked outside”

There are no anomalies at GZ because whatever happened at GZ is unique, it has not happened before; it was a deviation from the normal. There is no baseline to compare events to.

Trying to say this should have happened and this should not have happened, IMO is pointless, unless it happens again. God willing it never will happen again but then the conspirators will have something to compare it to, Until then trying to say that cars or trucks, or whatever should not have been damaged and this and that should not have happened is silly. Because nobody could ever know what would happen when to 110 stories building collapses. They only thing the investigators can try do are put forward suggestions to make sure it never happens again.

You can trust those who investigated, have faith that they have done their best and put forward suggestions that make sense and will prevent loss of life in the future. Or you can wonder why a car got all busted up at GZ.
 
try the expert next time, save your poor research for your thesis

Docker said:
Are you implying that desks burning for 56 minutes could cause global collapse in one of the greatest engineering triumphs in history?
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2032413&postcount=111

but then you need to ask the

Ask the guy who was the expert on the GETIH, The original structural engineering Leslie E. Robertson

what did the original structural engineering Leslie E. Robertson say

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2032413&postcount=111

The original structural engineering Leslie E. Robertson says it was the fire that killed the WTC

As you are learning NIST did study the WTC floors ability to sustain the original design spec for fire protection, that is what they do when they investigate, before they tell you about how the wallboard and spray on fire proofing was destroyed in a big impact! The impact alone is equal in energy to a TON of TNT, like a 2000 pound bomb.

You are posting as if you are Alex Jones fanning a fire...
 
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