Annoying creationists

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Sorry mate, insults are ad hominem attacks. Ad hominem usually has precisely nothing to do with the argument at all:
The fallacy consists of attempting to discredit an argument by discrediting the arguer. If one merely insults you, without expecting that insult to have any impact on the truth or falsity of your argument, then one has not committed a logical fallacy. One has merely committed an insult.

Can you show where Articulett or I argued that your position was false because you were a blathering nincompoop? If not, then we have not commited a logical fallacy.

Precision in writing really isn't possible without precision in thinking.
 
And others will wonder why you didn't just open the link Dr Richard posted.
And still others will wonder why hammy insists on using the same incoherent phrasing of his question. Those same people will probably suspect he's keeping enough wiggle room in there to run away when confronted with the abundant evidence that directly contradicts his nonsense.
 
No, just a tiny preliminary. You give me a serve, I return service. That's how most games go. Your opening attacks me, I send you a wee brickbat back.
There is a point at which errors of judgement are so egregious that they qualify as idiocy.

Picking a flame-war with Dr. Adequate, for example.

Are you new here, or what?
 
Well, I hardly ever post there, so that raises the standard immediately!
That explains a mystery. I can't imagine your style surviving very long there.

The IIDB is quite stifiling in enforcing its rules. While that does tend to raise the bar of debate somewhat, it also precludes the wonderous amusments that Dr. A delivers so regularly.

It is not that reasonable debate is impossible on the JREF; rather, it's that we can call a fool a fool, and tend to do so.

I am quite happy with having access to both venues, and see no overwhelming value in either of them. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

One minor request, The Atheist: could you please tell me your screen name on IIDB, so I can put you on /ignore? I'm a little worried that if I respond to you over there, you'll forget which forum you're at, and make an inappropriate post.
 
What the hell was up with the argument given over the past few pages? That whole crazy flame war?

Seriously, is it Atheist or Adequate's contention that Evolution is wrong? If not, then why the whole flame war, especially in this particular thread? The whole thing seems rather useless to me, but I'm just a newb here...
 
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Seriously, is it Atheist or Adequate's contention that Evolution is wrong? If not, then why the whole flame war, especially in this particular thread? The whole thing seems rather useless to me, but I'm just a newb here...
You'll be shocked to find that people who agree on some things disagree on others. It's a rather startling fact, I know. I hope you were sitting down.
 
What the hell was up with the argument given over the past few pages? That whole crazy flame war?

Seriously, is it Atheist or Adequate's contention that Evolution is wrong? If not, then why the whole flame war, especially in this particular thread? The whole thing seems rather useless to me, but I'm just a newb here...

Certainly can't answer for the doc, but I certainly don't contend that it's wrong.

Looks like almost everyone but a die-hard or two has finished the skirmish - not really deserving of "war" status.

Jesus, if you're a noob, what am I?
 
And also forgetting the link at the bottom of this post which I'm referring back to for the third time.

Please keep ignoring this post. It proves you wrong, and I know how hard that would be for you.
Damn, it must have a long name.

Hmm. Medical breakthroughs? Bacteria cause disease, vaccination works, Salk vaccine closes the door on a viral disease, artificial heart/organ transplants, ...

What yours again?
 
Let's ask a question that is made obvious by the "framing science" thread running on this forum at this time.

What is the level of certainty of the scientific community at large with respect to the following theories?
1. Evolution by natural selection.
2. Generation of novel phenotypical characteristics that contribute to individual fitness through random alteration of genetic material in the breeding population, directly or indirectly.
3. Abiogenesis, by natural chemical and physical means.
4. Creation of the Solar System by natural cosmic physical means.
5. Initial creation of the universe by natural physical means.

I contend that the level of acceptance among the scientific community for the LEAST certain of these theories is at least 80%, constituting in legal terms a "clear showing," well beyond "preponderance of the evidence" necessary for a verdict in a civil trial, and well beyond "substantial and credible" needed for impeachment hearings; a "clear showing" is sufficient to obtain a preliminary injunction from a judge, requiring that someone cease and desist an activity unless or until a verdict in their favor shows that what they are doing is not a violation of another's rights. In the absence of a verdict in their favor, whether that does not come because they do not go to trial, or because the verdict in the trial is against them, they cannot continue that activity without being in contempt of court, at which point the judge in question will sanction them, up to and including imprisonment if necessary.

In the case of the second theory, I contend that the level of acceptance among the scientific community is at least 90%, constituting "very likely" in scientific terms, "clear and convincing" evidence in legal terms, sufficient to separate a child from a parent accused of a crime against the child permanently with only the right of appeal.

In the cases of the first and fourth theories, I assert that the level of certainty rises to better than 99%, sufficient evidence in a court of law to sentence an individual to death. I don't think more need be said to express this level of certainty.

That means that only abiogenesis and the initial creation of the universe are questionable even to the extent of a one-in-five chance that they are incorrect; and at best, there is a four out of five chance that our understanding of them is correct. For the remainder of these theories, assertion of "scientific uncertainty" is obfuscation, which an impartial and honest judge sitting on the bench judging cases would very properly and without chance of overturn on appeal either render judgment against or instruct a jury to ignore.

I don't think that unless substantial and credible evidence can be presented to overturn my assertions that there is any further need to discuss this.
 
I don't think that unless substantial and credible evidence can be presented to overturn my assertions that there is any further need to discuss this.

Phew, thank god for that.

I bet over 90% of the scientific community accept that psychics, astrologers, dowsers and the Tooth Fairy are all BS as well.

Jeff: Let Randi know he can retire now, paranormality and religion are dead; Scneibster just killed them off. Nothing to discuss.

How many astronomers decided that Pluto was no longer a planet?

Let the reign of science, mathematics and reason begin.
 
I'm sorry. I thought the answer was self-evident.

Yes, I do think that metaphysical naturalism has been adequate so far to explain every facet of human existance.

Now would you care to answer more than "Dunno?"

Edit: You might also suggest some area of human experience that is not, in your opinion, explainable by naturalism.
The notion that every facet of human existence has been adequately explained by by natural phenomena seems to imply that all scientific problems have now been answered. That is not the case. The origin of life remains a major problem that has been discussed at length on this thread. I, at least, try to discuss it seriously.
My own work is an evolutionary analysis and, in my opinion, it is a more compelling analysis of that problem than any other I have yet come across. One reason my work seems useful is that it pays serious attention to criticisms of evolutionary theory, as that theory is conventionally constructed. I find it deplorable that evolutionary theorists pay so little attention to those criticisms, especially as the apparent reason is that they disapprove of the motivations of the critics. It seems to me that what matters about those criticisms is not that the critics are often creationists, or that they have religious motivations, but the extent to which their criticisms of evolutionary theory are actually valid. In my opinion, those criticisms are much more valid than most scientific observers are willing to acknowledge.

Just as an aside, you might like to recall the anthropic principle and the idea of applying evolution to a near infinity of parallel universes. I am far from convinced that this idea, of parallel but unobservable universes, can be accommodated into the idea of naturalism.
 
Yeah, no doubt those assertions settled it. :)

Schneib, aren't you needed back on Olympus?
I intend to give hammy a chance to respond; this was not it. Classic ad hominem, attempting to discredit the message by discrediting the messenger. Do you have a single thing to say, hammegk, that denies what I have said, or is this the extent of your argument against? If you have one, make it; and do so in your very next post. Fail, and be relegated again to ignore. Your choice.

Same for you, John Hewitt. Let's see even a preponderance of evidence (50%) to support your claims. Not that that level of certainty even approaches the level of certainty of actual scientific claims; nevertheless, to even assert that there is any reason to doubt whatsoever based on your claims, you must meet that minimal standard. One shot. No BS. Go for it.
 
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