Anita Moorjani Experiance?

[Beerina]

All but indisputably true, but the common reductionist temptation to over-rationalize can generate utterly fallacious conclusions (…”Frankie is paraplegic which must explain why he is so creative.”…). There is no doubt that there are correlations…but when it comes to actual causes, the only appropriate word is ‘mystery’ (how did Stevie Wonder put it....” when you believe in things that you don’t understand you will suffer!”)(…but then again…what is belief but a variety of understanding). Not a popular conclusion, especially on the science threads of a skeptics forum…but a fact just the same.

….so, the question is not ‘can mind influence matter’ (only a complete idiot would dispute that), the question is (or rather …questions are): what is mind…and how much of an influence can it have? Nobody can even begin to definitively resolve these questions, anymore than anyone can even begin to definitively confirm or dismiss the reality of NDE’s. There is simply a great deal that is not known about us or the reality we are a part and a result of…and there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence that implicates anomalous phenomena and greater mysteries.

I thought there was a study that showed how positive your thoughts were in "fighting a disease" had no relatitonship to survival rates.

 

[annnnoid]

Sure. And decision to build a dog house, decision to bake a bread, decision to break a piece of wood, etc etc etc.
Is there, according to you, an example which is relevant to this thread?

Precisely how is that not relevant to this thread? It demonstrates very explicitly how common and fundamental the relationship between mind and body is. It was your mind that created the content of that post. It was your body that banged on the keys. It was your mind that made your body bang on the keys. A bit simplistic, but that basically describes our understanding of what happens.

That you don’t like the implications may be a problem, but I can’t help you there. The only question is…to what degree can the mind influence the body? That question cannot even begin to be answered…at least, not by any conventional science. Lots of unconventional science though. Also lots of borderline stuff (just google 'Psychosomatic').

 

[annnnoid]

I thought there was a study that showed how positive your thoughts were in "fighting a disease" had no relatitonship to survival rates.

Find me that study and I guarantee it will take no more than a few moments to poke a million holes in it.

 

[Daylightstar]

...
That you don’t like the implications may be a problem, but I can’t help you there. The only question is…to what degree can the mind influence the body? That question cannot even begin to be answered…at least, not by any conventional science. Lots of unconventional science though. Also lots of borderline stuff (just google 'Psychosomatic').

Alright then, rather than "matter" you actually meant "body".
Can you give a specific example of the currently most extreme observable and replicable degree to which one's mind can influence one's body, without mechanical intervention?

 

[annnnoid]

Alright then, rather than "matter" you actually meant "body".
Can you give a specific example of the currently most extreme observable and replicable degree to which one's mind can influence one's body, without mechanical intervention?

Sorry dude…the fact that ‘body’ = matter is disagreeable to you is not my problem.

…and your insistence on ‘replicable’ is nonsensical. Just because an event cannot be explicitly replicated (volitionally or otherwise) does not, in any way shape or form, establish (either conditionally or unconditionally) that it was either fraudulent or that it did not happen.

‘Observable’ is just as dubious. Observable by who…or what? Just about all of what passes for your very own subjective experience is observable by no one and nothing but you. So how is it even possible to empirically determine when a cognitive event has explicitly occurred, let alone what it is, let alone how it has influenced the body?

OTOH...there are countless examples of 'miracles' and inexplicable physical events of every shape, size, and manifestation. Who knows what may, or may not, be actually happening.

 

[Daylightstar]

Sorry dude…the fact that ‘body’ = matter is disagreeable to you is not my problem....

Sure, the body is matter, like a brick. But a brick doesn't get cancer.

...
…and your insistence on ‘replicable’ is nonsensical. Just because an event cannot be explicitly replicated (volitionally or otherwise) does not, in any way shape or form, establish (either conditionally or unconditionally) that it was either fraudulent or that it did not happen.
...

Can you give an example of such an event? You know, where the mind has a non mechanical influence on the body?

...
‘Observable’ is just as dubious. Observable by who…or what? Just about all of what passes for your very own subjective experience is observable by no one and nothing but you. So how is it even possible to empirically determine when a cognitive event has explicitly occurred, let alone what it is, let alone how it has influenced the body?
...

Are you saying that the woman in the op has presented only a claim?
Are you actually saying that any influence of the mind on the body would be a cognitive event? If so, in what way?

...
OTOH...there are countless examples of 'miracles' and inexplicable physical events of every shape, size, and manifestation. Who knows what may, or may not, be actually happening.

Lots of claims of all kinds of things exist for sure.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

For a start, Spontaneous_remission^WP actually happens:

Frequency of spontaneous regression in cancer

It has long been assumed that spontaneous regressions, let alone cures, from cancer are rare phenomena, and that some forms of cancer are more prone to unexpected courses (melanoma, neuroblastoma, lymphoma) than others (carcinoma). Frequency was estimated to be about 1 in 100,000 cancers; however, this ratio might be under- or overestimated.

further

At least for small tumors the frequency of spontaneous regression most likely was drastically underrated. In a carefully designed study on mammography it was found that 22% of all breast cancer cases underwent spontaneous regression.

In some of these cases the patient rejects medical treatment and spends $100,000 being injected with bulbo-quinca juice (or the equivalent) in a fake medical clinic run by fake doctors in Tijuana . . . and recovers. Praise da Lord. In others the patient goes home and continues with their life; drinking three beers a day, smoking a pack 'o day and eating mounds of delicious bacon . . . and recovers. Praise statistics.

 

[Daylightstar]

... In others the patient goes home and continues with their life; drinking three beers a day, smoking a pack 'o day and eating mounds of delicious bacon . . . and recovers. Praise statistics.

There's no magic there, the evidence is quite clear, it was the delicious bacon, no question about it.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

There's no magic there, the evidence is quite clear, it was the delicious bacon, no question about it.

And even if you do die from the cancer, what a way to go!

 

[Kumar]

Precisely how is that not relevant to this thread? It demonstrates very explicitly how common and fundamental the relationship between mind and body is. It was your mind that created the content of that post. It was your body that banged on the keys. It was your mind that made your body bang on the keys. A bit simplistic, but that basically describes our understanding of what happens.

That you don’t like the implications may be a problem, but I can’t help you there. The only question is…to what degree can the mind influence the body? That question cannot even begin to be answered…at least, not by any conventional science. Lots of unconventional science though. Also lots of borderline stuff (just google 'Psychosomatic').

You seem to be very much relevant to this topic. How much mind can influence defence system and how lifetime perceived things can be repeated during coma or on feeling of end state is need to be understood here?

 

[Kumar]

I thought there was a study that showed how positive your thoughts were in "fighting a disease" had no relatitonship to survival rates.

I don't this it is matter of positive thoughts. It should be a matter of, how mind and body react to feeling of end state or death.

 

[Kid Eager]

You seem to be very much relevant to this topic. How much mind can influence defence system and how lifetime perceived things can be repeated during coma or on feeling of end state is need to be understood here?

Oh Kumar, how I've missed your word salad use of English! Who needs Soduku, when there's such interesting puzzles laid before us?

 

[Kumar]

For a start, Spontaneous_remission^WP actually happens:



further



In some of these cases the patient rejects medical treatment and spends $100,000 being injected with bulbo-quinca juice (or the equivalent) in a fake medical clinic run by fake doctors in Tijuana . . . and recovers. Praise da Lord. In others the patient goes home and continues with their life; drinking three beers a day, smoking a pack 'o day and eating mounds of delicious bacon . . . and recovers. Praise statistics.

Do you mean that we should check this case with possibility of natural cure?

 

[Kumar]

Oh Kumar, how I've missed your word salad use of English! Who needs Soduku, when there's such interesting puzzles laid before us?

Perceived things repeated on feeling of end.

Last try by body defence.

The above need to be checked.

 

[sackett]

Do you mean thoat we should check this case with possibility of natural cure?

Actual, you should be checking if or whether even just only one word of story is true from telling. Annnnnnnoid & you can taking holiday from forum to researching in intornet or maybe ouija board. I am thinking this is will be bestest way to survive truth. Natural cure, one can say?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Do you mean that we should check this case with possibility of natural cure?

How could you check a single case? Research shows that there are cases of spontaneous remission. This may be one.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Perceived things repeated on feeling of end.

Last try by body defence.

The above need to be checked.

"she claims to have crossed into the afterlife during what she considers a Near Death Experience" -- Maybe she is wrong in this claim. Does she have any actual proof? Without independent confirmation it is just a not so amusing story.

I claim to understand every thing you post. The vast majority here I'm sure will call me on that.

 

[Kumar]

How could you check a single case? Research shows that there are cases of spontaneous remission. This may be one.

Thanks.

I just want to know science of spontaneous remission?

 

[Kumar]

"she claims to have crossed into the afterlife during what she considers a Near Death Experience" -- Maybe she is wrong in this claim. Does she have any actual proof? Without independent confirmation it is just a not so amusing story.

I claim to understand every thing you post. The vast majority here I'm sure will call me on that.

Yes, science needs checking. I am also trying to know possibility of this somewhat look abnormal case in science.

 

[Kumar]

Actual, you should be checking if or whether even just only one word of story is true from telling. Annnnnnnoid & you can taking holiday from forum to researching in intornet or maybe ouija board. I am thinking this is will be bestest way to survive truth. Natural cure, one can say?

Why it can't be checked here by discussions?

I doubt placebo or positive thought can do so.

Simply, we need to check:-

Feelings, say in sedation(like on lie detector test) or feeling on near death time.

How defence can react for last try?

You can also add: on getting near death state, how cancer cells can behave in comparison to healthy cells?