Angelina Jolie in "Atlas Shrugged"

[billyb1012]

Wow, I was skeptical about this site but any place where Ayn Rand fans are forced to speak in an apologetic tone of embarrassment is alright with me.

 

[RandFan]

Angelina Jolie is apparently a RandFan, and sought out backers for the movie.

FWIW, RandFan is trademarked. Please cease and desist from using the term without prior permission.

 

[RandFan]

Wow, I was skeptical about this site but any place where Ayn Rand fans are forced to speak in an apologetic tone of embarrassment is alright with me.

Some of us have a backbone.

 

[Pipirr]

FWIW, RandFan is trademarked. Please cease and desist from using the term without prior permission.

Angelina? Is that you?

 

[CplFerro]

I enjoyed many aspects of this book, but Angelina? Nope. I say let Luc Besson direct it! He'll cast it properly.

On a side note I think it's really odd that Ayn often quoted Galt in her non-fiction works. That, and her black and white approach to morality, tainted Atlas for me. I viewed her with a much more critical eye from that moment on.

Dear Miss Anthrope,

I am curious. What approach to morality isn't black and white? I never quite understand what people mean by "black and white morality" versus....no morality at all? Morality with a lot of "wiggle room"? I'm genuinely curious about this distinction that so many people seem enthusiastic about as defining themselves as anything but the undesirable "black and white."

Sincerely,

Cpl Ferro

 

[Miss Anthrope]

Dear Miss Anthrope,

I am curious. What approach to morality isn't black and white? I never quite understand what people mean by "black and white morality" versus....no morality at all? Morality with a lot of "wiggle room"? I'm genuinely curious about this distinction that so many people seem enthusiastic about as defining themselves as anything but the undesirable "black and white."

Sincerely,

Cpl Ferro

Well, what I was referring to was Ayn's work "The Virtue of Selfishness" and her absolutely dogmatic assertions of what, specifically, is immoral, moral, rational and irrational. While I find a good deal of what she considers moral or rational to be consistent with my own values, I did occasionally take issue with everything she declared immoral or irrational. These were philosophical "immoralities". She seemed to be occasionally dictating dogma rather than arguing the virtues of some of these things.

Speaking for myself, much of my own morality is black and white when it comes to things like murder and stealing., I take issue with people saying certain philosophies, lifestyle choices et cetera are profoundly immoral. Do some people, even those that I most definitely philosophically disagree with, have moral reasons for believing what they do (some socialists, for instance)? Yes, they do. However, I find income redistribution rarely moral, but I can certainly see where those who think it is are coming from. When something can be debated philosophically, when there are pros and cons to each side, I don't see it as black and white.

I have substantially reversed my positions as I have grown as person, and as I have learned. I was raised by a cold-reader, who (according to family lore) descended from "gypsies" who traveled with carnivals in Europe reading Tarot and acting as mediums. I became an excellent cold reader and never knew what I was doing was not in fact the woo I presented it as. I thought my insightful "hits" were things I was actually picking up supernaturally. Then I tried very hard to be a Christian. Politically I was on the very, very far left, then I went very far right--until I learned to decide issues based on knowledge and not knee jerk responses. I am presently a skeptical atheist, as I have been for over a decade, but yes, my sense of morality outside of the big things like murder, stealing and cheating has evolved a great deal. My morality on issues outside these simple ones is not black and white. I listen to the facts, the arguments, and make decisions. Sometimes I do not believe something is 100% moral or 100% immoral. I would go into some issues that I'm 60/40 on, but I they are "hot" issues and I don't want to derail.

Back to Rand: Ayn would call me immoral (or was it irrational?) each time I become intoxicated, based on this particular work. I would call her immoral for quoting John Galt, a fictional character she created, to justify or stregthen her own moralizing positions in the Virtue of Selfishness. (I do realize that is just my take on her usage and others may rightfully disagree)

Ayn saw the world in a very rigid, black and white sense. I don't feel she could be reasoned with in certain areas, nor would she always stand up to the simple standard that skeptics should examine all the evidence and be prepared to reconsider their conclusions. Simple issues like killing another human being (with the exception of when they are clearly trying to kill you) are pretty obvious. Not all issues are so simple. Ayn, though brilliant in many respects--and someone who has had ideas I agree with whole-heartedly-- could at times be extremely judgmental in my opinion. She declared certain things immoral or irrational with broad strokes. She used "irrational" a lot, sometimes without further explanation on why she believed this to be so. Some if smelled awfully close to religion for my tastes.

 

[RandFan]

Angelina? Is that you?

No but I wish I was her kid.

 

[RandFan]

...to justify or stregthen her own moralizing positions in the Virtue of Selfishness. (I do realize that is just my take on her usage and others may rightfully disagree).

This is the most misunderstood part of Rand's philosophy. Her point wasn't that selfishness was a virtue. It was that altruism for the sake of altruism wasn't a virtue.

ETA: I agree with most everything else you wrote.