Merged Andrew Wakefield/Callous doctor who claimed MMR jab causes child autism is struck off

[Rolfe]

So, where does that leave Wakefield? He's still protesting his utter and absolute blamelessness. And yet, if you read your way through Brian Deer's "summary" of the story (all 21,000 words of it), his dishonesty is breathtaking.

Is it possible he's really so self-deluded that he still thinks he was right all along? That he could legitimately complain about being called "dishonest" because he truly believes he did nothing wrong?

Or does he know he was trying it on to make big bucks, and got caught?

I just don't understand people like him, so I have no clue.

Rolfe.

 

[k-ho]

so i watched the matt lauer interview and he said something about studies "in 5 countries" that replicated his results and that the government has been compensating families for vaccines causing autism since 1980-something blah-de-blah.

i'm guessing he meant things like the mitochondrial disorder children being injured by vaccines (not really leading to autism, but something like it) and the gov't compensating those families. what possible facts would it be that he was bending for the "replication" of his results? shady countries doing unblinded research? more unethical recruiting at children's birthday parties?

i would have loved to have been at the rally in chicago today since i live there, alas i work 15 miles west of the city and couldn't take the day off...

 

[SusanB-M1]

Wakefield was interviewed on Radio 4 this morning. He claims that he never said that the MMR was linked with autism.[/QB]

I was listening to that too. I thought he sounded so self-satisfied and lacking in any contrition.

 

[DeiRenDopa]

Basically just a snake oil salesman to the very end?

 

[Rolfe]

Who says this is the end?

He's been struck off, but when did the lack of a licence to practise medicine stop a snake-oil salesman? Although he's now in the outer darkness as far as mainstream medicine is concerned, he's the victimised, scapegoated, gagged hero to a small but enthusiastic subset of people.

That subset is large enough to keep him on the gravy train for life, I suspect. He's already made millions out of all this, and as far as I can see he's all set to go right on doing that, in the altmed/quack arena.

Rolfe.

 

[DrKarlKid]

He is also appealing the decision

 

[Orphia Nay]

Who says this is the end?

He's been struck off, but when did the lack of a licence to practise medicine stop a snake-oil salesman? Although he's now in the outer darkness as far as mainstream medicine is concerned, he's the victimised, scapegoated, gagged hero to a small but enthusiastic subset of people.

Yep, 15% of 26,449 voters in this current poll still think vaccines cause autism.

http://community.todaymoms.com/_que...9-do-you-think-vaccines-are-related-to-autism

 

[Rolfe]

He is also appealing the decision.

For all the good that's likely to do him. The stuff Brian Deer uncovered is simply jaw-dropping. He's toast as far as the GMC is concerned, and rightly so.

It's not going to stop him though. He's always had a woo streak to him, and he's always been someone who wanted to make money from ancillary products as a sideline to his medical career. All he has to do now is don the mantle of the victim, the truth-teller who has been scapegoated and sacrificed by Big Pharma and Big Medicine to cover up the horrific dangers of these vaccines.

He'll do it in the USA, because the market for his woo is bigger anyway, and because the lack of a public health system tends to provide fertile ground for quackery of every sort. And he'll make (even more) millions.

Yes, it makes me puke too.

Rolfe.

 

[Ocelot]

Yep, 15% of 26,449 voters in this current poll still think vaccines cause autism.

http://community.todaymoms.com/_que...9-do-you-think-vaccines-are-related-to-autism

It was worse before it got Pharyngulated and Oraced but that might be because it had been Age of Autismed

Do we think that there might be some sort of flaw behind the whole idea of an internet poll?

 

[Orphia Nay]

It was worse before it got Pharyngulated and Oraced but that might be because it had been Age of Autismed

I think it got Bad Astronomered and Dr Rachied too, IIRC.

Do we think that there might be some sort of flaw behind the whole idea of an internet poll?

We do.

 

[Physiotherapist]

You should have a look on http://www.youtube.com. If you enter Dr. Mercola and Dr. Wakefield there is a series of interviews in 10 parts that Joseph Mercola has done with him.

At the end apparently, he states that he has been offered a new job in the States as some kind of research scientist on autism.

Apparently he has never had a medical practice licence in the States, which I did not realise. I wonder if the medical boards in Texas, where he supposedly lives now in Austin would grand him one now?

 

[Rolfe]

You should have a look on http://www.youtube.com. If you enter Dr. Mercola and Dr. Wakefield there is a series of interviews in 10 parts that Joseph Mercola has done with him.

No, thanks!

At the end apparently, he states that he has been offered a new job in the States as some kind of research scientist on autism.

Why am I not surprised? I'd take a moderate bet that this isn't a legitimate research post, but something connected to the marketing of unproven and fanciful treatments to con more desperate parents out of even more money. Quite possibly still the goat colostrum game.

[As an aside, if anyone thinks colostrum is safe and natural, just google "bovine neonatal pancytopenia". Not that I'm suggesting goat colostrum could ever cause that sort of thing to happen to a human child, just pointing out a slight parallel.]

Apparently he has never had a medical practice licence in the States, which I did not realise. I wonder if the medical boards in Texas, where he supposedly lives now in Austin would grand him one now?

No, he never applied for board certification (or whatever it is you need to practise in the USA). I'd say that the chances of him getting it now are about snowball-in-hell level.

Although he was a doctor when he did all this stuff in London, he was in a research post with an honorary consultant title which specifically prohibited him from treating or managing patients. One of the complaints against him was that despite that status, he repeatedly telephoned the parents of children in his study and gave them advice as if he were their actual consultant.

He doesn't need to be certified as a medical doctor in order to do what he'll be doing. He'll get by on the same loopholes that the rest of the unqualified quacks get by on. And he'll use his "I was a real doctor but they struck me off for telling the truth" status to get ahead.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I just realised Brian Deer has posted page images of the entirety of Wakefield's original 1997 patent application for the so-called "measles vaccine" he was planning on making his fortune from, once he's discredited MMR. The final 1998 version is also there.

http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm
http://briandeer.com/mmr/1998-vaccine-patent.pdf

It will make hilarious reading for all the biomedical scientists here. It's the whole goat colostrum transfer factor thing, which is utter woo from start to finish. It's dressed up as science, but he's really just dreamed up the whole thing on the back of the theorising of a quack called Fudenberg.

This makes it quite clear that the project to market his product was well advanced before the controversial paper was even published. The money he was getting for investigating these children and supporting their legal actions was only the start of it, and frankly small beer to what he seems to have been expecting to make if the MMR had been withdrawn and his goat colostrum nostrum adopted instead.

So far as I know, no safety or efficacy testing was ever done on this snake-oil.

I also sort of wonder how many mice he envisaged using in the first stage of the manufacture, and then how many pregnant goats would have been needed to provide enough of this product for widespread use? What about the kids they produced, which would be surplus to requirements once born, and also vulnerable liabilities when deprived of their mothers' colostrum which the kids need to provide their own passive immunity. I presume they'd just be killed when they were born?

The mind boggles, frankly. I wonder what the animal rights people would make of it? Gadzillions of mice injected with measles and then killed, with their tissues then injected into huge herds of pregnant goats spread out all over the countryside, with their kids being killed at birth so that the mothers' colostrum can be harvested.

Wow.

And as I said, if anyone thinks that even taking colostrum by mouth is "safe and natural", google "bovine neonatal pancytopenia". Oh, but Wakefield wanted to inject the colostrum-derived product right into the children's bodies, just like a vaccine.

You know, maybe more details of what he was planning (and is actually doing on a small scale, I understand) need to be highlighted.

Rolfe.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I just realised Brian Deer has posted page images of the entirety of Wakefield's original 1997 patent application for the so-called "measles vaccine" he was planning on making his fortune from, once he's discredited MMR. The final 1998 version is also there.

http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm
http://briandeer.com/mmr/1998-vaccine-patent.pdf

It will make hilarious reading for all the biomedical scientists here. It's the whole goat colostrum transfer factor thing, which is utter woo from start to finish. It's dressed up as science, but he's really just dreamed up the whole thing on the back of the theorising of a quack called Fudenberg.

This makes it quite clear that the project to market his product was well advanced before the controversial paper was even published. The money he was getting for investigating these children and supporting their legal actions was only the start of it, and frankly small beer to what he seems to have been expecting to make if the MMR had been withdrawn and his goat colostrum nostrum adopted instead.

So far as I know, no safety or efficacy testing was ever done on this snake-oil.

I also sort of wonder how many mice he envisaged using in the first stage of the manufacture, and then how many pregnant goats would have been needed to provide enough of this product for widespread use? What about the kids they produced, which would be surplus to requirements once born, and also vulnerable liabilities when deprived of their mothers' colostrum which the kids need to provide their own passive immunity. I presume they'd just be killed when they were born?

The mind boggles, frankly. I wonder what the animal rights people would make of it? Gadzillions of mice injected with measles and then killed, with their tissues then injected into huge herds of pregnant goats spread out all over the countryside, with their kids being killed at birth so that the mothers' colostrum can be harvested.

Wow.

And as I said, if anyone thinks that even taking colostrum by mouth is "safe and natural", google "bovine neonatal pancytopenia". Oh, but Wakefield wanted to inject the colostrum-derived product right into the children's bodies, just like a vaccine.

You know, maybe more details of what he was planning (and is actually doing on a small scale, I understand) need to be highlighted.

Rolfe.

 

[Deetee]

Regarding Wakefield's "vaccine", let me tell you all a tawdry little tale that will nauseate you even more......

Despite the calling of the product a "vaccine" on the patents applications, it is not really a vaccine in the sense we all know vaccines to be. This has meant he and the antivaxers can declare vociferously (and sneakily, absolutely honestly, [in a straw man sense]) that he was not seeking to patent a "vaccine alternative to the MMR".

But Wakers was (is?) even more deceptive, devious and duplicitous than this. Why? Because the product was going to be a treatment for children with bowel problems blamed on the MMR vaccine, and he still stood to benefit considerably from it.

So either way you look at it, Wakers would rake it in. Not by creating a genuine alternative to MMR, but by marketing a "cure" for MMR induced autistic problems (hence joining a large number of whackjobs such as the Geiers in what is a packed but very lucrative field). So demonstrating MMR caused autism was a necessary ground-laying exercise, one he did to near perfection.

His patented product was to be produced by him and the father of one of the Lancet children. They set up a company, with them both as executive directors specifically for the purposes of producing and manufacturing the "vaccine" or treatment if you prefer. Wakefield then experimented with the product on the child concerned (so yes Rolfe, they did "test" the product).

Now tell me there is no conflict of interest in demonstrating how wonderful the product is....... Fortunately the GMC saw through this scam too.

How this man can sleep at night, or answer questions with a straight face is incomprehensible to me.

 

[Estellea]

DeeTee, Here is a copy of the Wakefield single measles vaccine patent application. It is a pre-prophylaxis vaccine for measles as well as a 'therapeutic' agent for 'MMR-induced autistic enterocolitis'. So yes, he stood to rake it in at both ends by marketing a 'safer' single measles vaccine and an 'autism treatment'.

Este

 

[Deetee]

DeeTee, Here is a copy of the Wakefield single measles vaccine patent application. It is a pre-prophylaxis vaccine for measles as well as a 'therapeutic' agent for 'MMR-induced autistic enterocolitis'. So yes, he stood to rake it in at both ends by marketing a 'safer' single measles vaccine and an 'autism treatment'.

Este

Yes indeed.
Forgive me for underestimating just how lugubrious and oleaginous this vile man is.
Excuse me while I find a bucket to be sick in...

 

[Estellea]

Yes indeed.
Forgive me for underestimating just how lugubrious and oleaginous this vile man is.
Excuse me while I find a bucket to be sick in...

Earns marks back for such good, descriptive words. They simply fail me when thinking of what this man has done. And even worse that he has such undying support; pass that bucket please.

Este

 

[Rolfe]

Regarding Wakefield's "vaccine", let me tell you all a tawdry little tale that will nauseate you even more......

Despite the calling of the product a "vaccine" on the patents applications, it is not really a vaccine in the sense we all know vaccines to be. This has meant he and the antivaxers can declare vociferously (and sneakily, absolutely honestly, [in a straw man sense]) that he was not seeking to patent a "vaccine alternative to the MMR".

But Wakers was (is?) even more deceptive, devious and duplicitous than this. Why? Because the product was going to be a treatment for children with bowel problems blamed on the MMR vaccine, and he still stood to benefit considerably from it.

So either way you look at it, Wakers would rake it in. Not by creating a genuine alternative to MMR, but by marketing a "cure" for MMR induced autistic problems (hence joining a large number of whackjobs such as the Geiers in what is a packed but very lucrative field). So demonstrating MMR caused autism was a necessary ground-laying exercise, one he did to near perfection.

His patented product was to be produced by him and the father of one of the Lancet children. They set up a company, with them both as executive directors specifically for the purposes of producing and manufacturing the "vaccine" or treatment if you prefer. Wakefield then experimented with the product on the child concerned (so yes Rolfe, they did "test" the product).

Now tell me there is no conflict of interest in demonstrating how wonderful the product is....... Fortunately the GMC saw through this scam too.

How this man can sleep at night, or answer questions with a straight face is incomprehensible to me.

Yes, I more or less knew that part - when I said "test", I had more in mind than "he gave it to a child", which I knew. I think he may have given it to more than one, but it still doesn't add up to actual safety and efficacy testing.

It does show that he did produce the stuff though (and is probably still producing it, if he's using it in America). I'd like to know where. I want to know how many nanny-goats he had, and what their welfare standards were, and specifically how they policed the parturition to ensure that the kids didn't consume any colostrum. Obviously, if you want the colostrum the kids can't have it, but guess what they do very soon after they first get to their spindly little legs.

Most births occur during the night, and if you specifically want to prevent the neonate consuming colostrum for some reason (sometimes necessary if you have a parental anitgen mismatch and the potential for haemolytic anaemia of the newborn, the animal equivalent of rhesus baby syndrome), you have to stay up and monitor the birth then immediately step in and remove the neonate.

So what next? Do you actually want the kid? If so, you're going to have to provide some sort of artificial colostrum in order to rear the animal. It's going to be a lot of kids, all for the mother's milk for a mere two-day period. If you want to keep the kids, you could simply muzzle them for two days, and feed them artificial colostrum and milk, then remove the muzzle and let them get on with it after the colostrum period is past.

If this sort of production ever got off the ground in a big way, I'd predict the kids would be surplus to requirements, and they'd be shot and the nanny dried off after the colostrum was finished (about two days) and got pregnant again. I'd also predict that someone would devise some sort of confinement pen which would ensure the newborn kid couldn't get to its mother even if she was unobserved at the time.

If you're playing at this with one or two goats then if could be done in a reasonably welfare-friendly manner. However, if it was ever ramped up, the aniimal welfare implications would be appalling. If you wanted enough product to treat a substantial proportion of the population - and remember, this was being proposed as an actual vaccine or vaccine-substitute, not just as a treatment - how many battery goat barns would you need?

Rolfe.

 

[Delscottio]

So, where does that leave Wakefield? He's still protesting his utter and absolute blamelessness. And yet, if you read your way through Brian Deer's "summary" of the story (all 21,000 words of it), his dishonesty is breathtaking.

Is it possible he's really so self-deluded that he still thinks he was right all along? That he could legitimately complain about being called "dishonest" because he truly believes he did nothing wrong?

Or does he know he was trying it on to make big bucks, and got caught?

I just don't understand people like him, so I have no clue.

Rolfe.

I'm half way through Deers summary and am in absolute shock. At every turn, every bloody turn this bastard knew exactly what he was doing and what the outcome would be. This was all about ego and money, what i've found most surprising is how easy it was for him to get published in one of the most respected journals.

Evil grubby little man.