And the Jihad continues...

[gumboot]

That war with Iraq cost millions of lives. It might still make them a little angry. Look at the American reaction to 3,000 losing their lives.

IMHO, the moment Khamenei was elected as President of Iran, that country was lost. He's as close to a Middle-East Hitler as I've ever seen.

-Andrew

 

[Skeptic]

The rise of extremist Islam was pretty apparent years ago, if anyone bothered to look. What amazed me was the inflexible attitude of American administrations to take a chance to appeal to the moderates in Iran, where extremism made it's name.

Dammit, I knew it's the USA's fault somehow!

 

[a_unique_person]

Dammit, I knew it's the USA's fault somehow!

That's right, don't address any arguments or facts, where's the dog?

 

[Skeptic]

Fundamentalism has been around since the dawn of history, it's modern credibility was created with that event.

Well, I'm not surpirsed you have decided that the one event that "made" modern fundamentalist Islam is the one event you think you can indirectly blame on the USA.

What a curious coincidence.

 

[Mycroft]

And do what exactly to prevent the radicalisation of Muslim youth ?

Well, start off by recognizing that the common denominator is Islam. Why do Muslim businessmen in Indonesia want to donate money to promote jihad in Lebanon/Israel? Why are Muslims in Iran willing to volunteer to be suicide bombers? Why are there Muslims in London willing to kill other Londoners over British policy in Iraq, when far more Iraqis are being killed by other Muslims?

 

[CFLarsen]

Well, start off by recognizing that the common denominator is Islam. Why do Muslim businessmen in Indonesia want to donate money to promote jihad in Lebanon/Israel? Why are Muslims in Iran willing to volunteer to be suicide bombers? Why are there Muslims in London willing to kill other Londoners over British policy in Iraq, when far more Iraqis are being killed by other Muslims?

So, you are arguing against the religion itself?

 

[The Don]

Well, start off by recognizing that the common denominator is Islam. Why do Muslim businessmen in Indonesia want to donate money to promote jihad in Lebanon/Israel? Why are Muslims in Iran willing to volunteer to be suicide bombers? Why are there Muslims in London willing to kill other Londoners over British policy in Iraq, when far more Iraqis are being killed by other Muslims?

Okay, I'll bite, I'm willing to believe that Islam is the cause of this, what do we do

- Make being Muslim illegal ?
- Kill all Muslims ?
- Enforced conversion ?

What ?

 

[Crossbow]

Well, start off by recognizing that the common denominator is Islam. Why do Muslim businessmen in Indonesia want to donate money to promote jihad in Lebanon/Israel? Why are Muslims in Iran willing to volunteer to be suicide bombers? Why are there Muslims in London willing to kill other Londoners over British policy in Iraq, when far more Iraqis are being killed by other Muslims?

The answers you seek are easily available if you want them.

I myself have seen several postings right here at JREF about it if you are so interested.
There are also numerous books, articles, documentaries, and other such data available if you are interested.

So, if are you actually interested in getting answers to your questions, then kindly notify the rest of us.

 

[DJW]

Okay, I'll bite, I'm willing to believe that Islam is the cause of this, what do we do

- Make being Muslim illegal ?
- Kill all Muslims ?
- Enforced conversion ?

What ?

I don’t know the answer, but it might be found within the United States. What has prevented the Muslim population in the United States from committing acts of terror? What is the difference between the French, British, Spanish or even Danish Muslim communities compared to the United States?

 

[Mycroft]

Radical Islam is not a response to an unacceptable act carried out by Western powers. It's a culture of overwhelming blind hatred, that feeds on anything it can.

Very well said!

The problem with looking at the grievance-du-jour is that it shifts attention away from the radicals and their violence, presuming they’re not really responsible. The issue isn’t that there are British troops among the coalition forces in Iraq, the issue is that young Muslim men have been led to believe that the presence of British troops in Iraq is an attack on Islam, even though their mission (at the moment) is to protect Muslims and help them establish a stable government.

Who is it that’s radicalizing them? Where is this ideology coming from? What ideologies could be successful in countering it and how can it be promoted?

 

[CFLarsen]

Very well said!

The problem with looking at the grievance-du-jour is that it shifts attention away from the radicals and their violence, presuming they’re not really responsible. The issue isn’t that there are British troops among the coalition forces in Iraq, the issue is that young Muslim men have been led to believe that the presence of British troops in Iraq is an attack on Islam, even though their mission (at the moment) is to protect Muslims and help them establish a stable government.

Who is it that’s radicalizing them? Where is this ideology coming from? What ideologies could be successful in countering it and how can it be promoted?

So, you are arguing against the religion itself?

And could you address the other posters as well?

 

[Mycroft]

"Iran" is a country of millions of people, who were collectively punished for removing a totalitarian regime, and a few radicals kidnapping embassy staff.

The Shah wasn't a totalitarian regime. The revolution happened because he ticked off the religious leaders by taking their land and eroding their wealth and power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Revolution

No, the problem with the Shaw wasn't that he was totalitarian, the problem with him was that he was inept.

 

[The Don]

I don’t know the answer, but it might be found within the United States. What has prevented the Muslim population in the United States from committing acts of terror? What is the difference between the French, British, Spanish or even Danish Muslim communities compared to the United States?

There's an article here that implies that France was too strict, Britain too lenient and the U.S. has got it just right.

Of course it could just be that the U.S. hasn't been attacked yet

 

[pipelineaudio]

What do you mean by "Islamic angle"?

Is it the religion or those interpreting the religion you are arguing against?

Its funny how when we knock on christians, and they cry "interpretation foul" everyone says, awww shut up...but the Religion of Subjugation gets a free pass?

While christianity is subject to interpretation, like trying to get deeper meaning out of the words of Charles Manson, Islam is a MUCH more codified system, more like interpreting law as the supreme court does...

Equating them is silly

And theres not all that much wiggle room for interpretation

 

[The Don]

Mycroft,

You've won the argument, it's all the fault of Islam..........


What next ?

 

[The Don]

What needs to be done is for other countries other than the US, UK, and Israel to step up to the plate an acknowledge that we are in World War 3. Not in the since like the previous world wars where you had mass armies on fronts. But in the since that terrorism has hit in countries around the world, there are terrorists coming from many different countries, and we are going to have to fight them in many different places. I applaud our fellow British friends for not tucking in their tails like the rest of Europe and trying to do the right thing, regardless of the fact we now know that facts leading up to Iraq were lies. Thats a topic for another thread. Until we have the cooperation of at least the rest of the Western World we are never going to win this fight. Not to mention it would be nice if Chine started taking some responsibility on the world stage if it truly wants to be recognized as a superpower.

You're completely right, what do we do ?

How do we address the situtation without making things even worse ?

 

[pipelineaudio]

So, you are arguing against the religion itself?

Is there something WRONG with that?

Magical thinking should be tolerated, but not when it encourages any action counter productive to rational human beings. In other words, we can leave the invisible sky monster worshippers to chase easter bunnies all they want, but when they attempt to send the easter bunny by, strapped with explosives, we better smack it down

 

[Mycroft]

Okay, I'll bite, I'm willing to believe that Islam is the cause of this, what do we do

- Make being Muslim illegal ?
- Kill all Muslims ?
- Enforced conversion ?

What ?

I'm not suggesting we treat Islam as one monolithic entity. No religion is.

However I believe it's evident there is a body of thought within Islam that promotes this kind of violence and has some Muslims viewing every conflict that involves Muslims as being an attack on Islam.

That's what needs to be realistically assessed and addressed.

 

[Mycroft]

The answers you seek are easily available if you want them.

I myself have seen several postings right here at JREF about it if you are so interested.
There are also numerous books, articles, documentaries, and other such data available if you are interested.

So, if are you actually interested in getting answers to your questions, then kindly notify the rest of us.

Please, share your thoughts.

 

[CFLarsen]

Its funny how when we knock on christians, and they cry "interpretation foul" everyone says, awww shut up...but the Religion of Subjugation gets a free pass?

While christianity is subject to interpretation, like trying to get deeper meaning out of the words of Charles Manson, Islam is a MUCH more codified system, more like interpreting law as the supreme court does...

Equating them is silly

And theres not all that much wiggle room for interpretation

What do you base that on?