And the boats keep coming

A.A. Alfie said:
And who's to say those that miss out on coming here would not be even better citizens?
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A.A. Alfie said:
That said, my question around boat arrivals being better citizens than others (which I understood to be the thrust of the point made) remains unanswered and unsupported.
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I note that you consider it your question, A.A. Alfie, so regardless of Dcdrac's point you are presumably be able to assuage my confusion.

When considering "better citizens", what measurement(s) would you use for comparison, or is the comparison purely subjective? What would a person with Australian citizenship (or one hoping to attain it) require to be considered "better"? What is the lower limit of this scale - that is, what qualities would the "worst" citizen have?

I may have misread your intent, but you seem to be suggesting discrimination of migrants based upon this comparison (otherwise it would appear the aim was merely to impugn the motives of those arriving on boats). Have I correctly understood you? If so, do you have any thoughts about persons born with Australian citizenship who would rate negatively, or what percentage of the population this might be?
 
the thrust is yes we should be worried about theirsafety nd also take into account why are they are coming why are they so depserapte to put themsleves in obivous danger my guess is, and that is all it is, is that they feel so desperate they are willing to risk themsleves for a chance of better life, my parentd were immigrants to the UK 50 years ago for those reasons, a chance at abetter life.
 
Dcdrac said:
the thrust is yes we should be worried about theirsafety nd also take into account why are they are coming why are they so depserapte to put themsleves in obivous danger my guess is, and that is all it is, is that they feel so desperate they are willing to risk themsleves for a chance of better life, my parentd were immigrants to the UK 50 years ago for those reasons, a chance at abetter life.
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Thanks. Are you also inferring (as I assumed) that you think these traits make somehow for more hard working citizens? Whilst I do not necessarily disagree, I was wondering if there are reasons beyond personal experience that developed this viewpoint.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
Thanks. Are you also inferring (as I assumed) that you think these traits make somehow for more hard working citizens? Whilst I do not necessarily disagree, I was wondering if there are reasons beyond personal experience that developed this viewpoint.
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so far you are the only one making that leap. why?
 
Ripping yourself form ally ou know and in these case launcing yourself to sea in usafe conditions, suggests to me a level of drive and detemination.

Are these allowed to work legally when they reach Australia or are there laws preventing This
 
Dcdrac said:
Ripping yourself form ally ou know and in these case launcing yourself to sea in usafe conditions, suggests to me a level of drive and detemination.

Are these allowed to work legally when they reach Australia or are there laws preventing This
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They can, but they do it hard. Here's a relevant article:

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...n-migrants-daily-struggle-20120802-23ihl.html

THOUSANDS of asylum seekers are struggling to live on as little as $31 a day - less than the dole - camped in hostels and boarding houses across the country with no access to government language training or official job schemes.
In what threatens to create a new migrant underclass, some people have been forced to sleep on the floor without a mattress in crowded share houses after they are given a meagre six weeks to learn English, secure work and long-term accommodation.
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This is interesting also:

"There are 13 times more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in detention who have arrived by boat."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-1226200568050

"Three in four of the 58,400 visa overstayers came on tourist or holiday-working visas; one in seven arrived as students and one in 15 disappeared after being granted temporary residency.

Last year, only 6720 visa overstayers were sent home, most voluntarily, after applications to stay longer were rejected."

ETA: Not exactly the same subject but interesting nonetheless.
 
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Persoanlly I hve lived and worked in 3 different Countries, USA, Germany UK, my parents alos worked and lived in multiple locations finally settling in the UK as a base, so to me moving about where I need to be in order to live is not unusual.
 
More than 200 asylum seekers arrived at Christmas Island this morning as the Defence Department said the Navy vessels charged with picking them up are starting to crack - literally - under the strain.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-...um-seekers-arrive-on-christmas-island/4189606

The boat intercepted overnight represents the largest number of people to arrive on a single boat under the current Government, and more than 7,000 people have now arrived by boat this year.

This boat was lucky to get here; it took two days to complete the rescue after the distress calls due to poor conditions at sea. Inevitably there will be more deaths.
 
The panel led by Angus Houston is due to release its report tomorrow. I'm looking forward to some real progress; unfortunately it's worth remembering that without any knowledge of what policies might be proposed Tony Abbott has declared he will ignore it.

I would be surprised if anything the panel came up with was compatible with the Coalition's position anyway, so I suppose at least he's being honest.

(And yes, the Government might end up rejecting the recommendations too, but at least they've agreed to read them first.)
 
uvar said:
The panel led by Angus Houston is due to release its report tomorrow. I'm looking forward to some real progress; unfortunately it's worth remembering that without any knowledge of what policies might be proposed Tony Abbott has declared he will ignore it.
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He's quite happy with the votes he's getting the way things are now. Why would he want to help solve anything.
 
uvar said:
The panel led by Angus Houston is due to release its report tomorrow. I'm looking forward to some real progress; unfortunately it's worth remembering that without any knowledge of what policies might be proposed Tony Abbott has declared he will ignore it.

I would be surprised if anything the panel came up with was compatible with the Coalition's position anyway, so I suppose at least he's being honest.

(And yes, the Government might end up rejecting the recommendations too, but at least they've agreed to read them first.)
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I agree with you. The report will no doubt destroy Abbott's grasp for the moral high ground. He won't care though. Votes trump dead asylum seekers to him.
 
lionking said:
I agree with you. The report will no doubt destroy Abbott's grasp for the moral high ground. He won't care though. Votes trump dead asylum seekers to him.
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I can't actually see that quite happening somehow. This is Gillard's problem - not Abbott's. The electorate are not idiots either, they understand who undid a policy that was working. They also know who is in power right now and that is Labor with the Green's and independents. It is also their's to fix.

Meanwhile more have died because she refuses to make a logical or compromise decision. She really is a spectacular waste of space.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
Meanwhile more have died because she refuses to make a logical or compromise decision. She really is a spectacular waste of space.
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The coalition refuses to compromise on offshore processing in Nauru.

The greens refuse to compromise on no offshore processing at all.

How exactly are Labor refusing to compromise?
 
uvar said:
The coalition refuses to compromise on offshore processing in Nauru.

The greens refuse to compromise on no offshore processing at all.

How exactly are Labor refusing to compromise?
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Please. No logic. It doesn't fit well in this thread. ;)
 
uvar said:
The coalition refuses to compromise on offshore processing in Nauru.
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Correct. They say (and correctly) that they have had their policy for some 10 years. They also claim it worked, Labor could simply go back to it.

uvar said:
The greens refuse to compromise on no offshore processing at all.
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Again correct. Yet they share power (so to speak) with Labor. The Greens have their policy in place as it stands and people die.

uvar said:
How exactly are Labor refusing to compromise?
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If they did compromise, we would actually have some sort of policy in place, now wouldn't we?. They have refused to budge from their end game either (i.e. Malaysia) and have cowardly delayed making any decision and instead call together a committee that no one will listen too.

Utterly useless.
 
Why is it bad that Labor doesn't compromise, even though we've seen them actually do it before, but it's a good thing if the Coalition doesn't compromise?
 
Wildy said:
Why is it bad that Labor doesn't compromise, even though we've seen them actually do it before, but it's a good thing if the Coalition doesn't compromise?
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If I said that, please cite it.

What I am saying is that the problem belongs to the government, they also have to work with the parliament they have been given (as Gillard et al have conveniently stated from time to time). It is totally incumbent on them to find a solution and Gillard is failing, to the tune of some 850+ lives so far.

Here's a picture of one of the latest (assumed dead)

picture.php
 
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