And the boats keep coming

Your compassion to the dead is overwhelming.
Your loyalty to to government policy is disgusting.
 
Denial? Of what? I’m still waiting for some evidence that supports your (currently baseless) assertion that illegal immigration rates are principally related to government policy. Certainly you never responded to that excellent graph provided to you that illustrated that immigration rates moved perfectly in sync with global refugee statistics (which of course had nothing to do with Australian Government policy).
 
The real blame here should be laid at the feet of the policies that destroy "smuggler" boats and slap "smugglers" with hefty jail sentences, meaning that refugees are going to sea on unseaworthy boats with poorly trained and educated crews, usually poor fisherman trying to make a living for their families. It is the criminal aspect that leads to tragedies like this

Prominent lawyer George Newhouse, who is representing survivors of last year's Christmas Island boat tragedy, said heavy penalties for people smuggling meant untrained "stooges" were in charge of vessels.

"To make matters worse, the government's policy of confiscating boats means the vessels which are used to transport asylum seekers are often unseaworthy - with disastrous results," he said.

Refugee Action Coalition coordinator Ian Rintoul agreed the decision to criminalise people smuggling had played a role in the latest tragedy.

"If the government is worried about people losing their lives at sea, they should decriminalise people smuggling so that the voyages can be planned in open and seaworthy boats," he said.

Mr Rintoul, anticipating expressions of sympathy from the government and the opposition, accused both sides of hypocrisy.

He called on the government and opposition to back a massive increase to Australia's refugee intake, end mandatory detention, decriminalise people smuggling and drop offshore processing as a policy option.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...d-for-asylum-boat-sinking-20111218-1p0jq.html
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The thing not given much attention is the complicity of the Indonesian authorities. It was reported that this group passed through immigration with no passports for $500 each. Not only that, but they were transported through a densely populated and heavily policed island on to fishing boats without any copper saying "Oi, what's going on 'ere". Indonesians are not serious about stopping this trade.
 
bit_pattern said:
The real blame here should be laid at the feet of the policies that destroy "smuggler" boats and slap "smugglers" with hefty jail sentences, meaning that refugees are going to sea on unseaworthy boats with poorly trained and educated crews, usually poor fisherman trying to make a living for their families. It is the criminal aspect that leads to tragedies like this
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Clearly the Australian authorities should provide the smugglers with seaworthy boats and pay a bounty for every live body they deliver to Australian territory. That's how the old timey slave trade worked.
 
Noztradamus said:
Clearly the Australian authorities should provide the smugglers with seaworthy boats and pay a bounty for every live body they deliver to Australian territory. That's how the old timey slave trade worked.
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Slave trade? What a facile and asinine analogy to make. And, no, we don't need to do any of those things. Just not actively creating the conditions whereby smugglers are motivated to use disposable boats and disposable crews.
 
I un-subcribed from this thread, but after this mornings tragic news I thought the government would get a little criticism at last on this thread, boy am I wrong. Gillard and her government can do no wrong it appears. I predict 20.000 boat arrivals in 2012 using these following figures only.
Boats Month People
2 Jan 166
4 Feb 251
7 March 351
6 April 362
6 May 304
3 June 183 [monsoon season]
5 July 28
4 August 280
4 Sep. 319
6 Oct. 314
11 November 892
8 Dec. up to 16th 750 [would have been around 1000 had this tragedy not occurred]
 
bit_pattern said:
Slave trade? What a facile and asinine analogy to make. And, no, we don't need to do any of those things. Just not actively creating the conditions whereby smugglers are motivated to use disposable boats and disposable crews.
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The smugglers have less concern for their cargo than they would for livestock. Assuming they will become saints and do the right thing if penalties were removed is naive. The trade is supported by at one end by people who don't care about deaths, and at the other by people willing to use those deaths to advocate "decrimnalization".
 
amb said:
<whinge>

I predict 20.000 boat arrivals in 2012 using these following figures only.

<some numbers>
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Perhaps you'll respond to this post and the one to which it refers:

Sceptic-PK said:
Denial? Of what? I’m still waiting for some evidence that supports your (currently baseless) assertion that illegal immigration rates are principally related to government policy. Certainly you never responded to that excellent graph provided to you that illustrated that immigration rates moved perfectly in sync with global refugee statistics (which of course had nothing to do with Australian Government policy).
Click to expand...
 
Noztradamus said:
The smugglers have less concern for their cargo than they would for livestock. Assuming they will become saints and do the right thing if penalties were removed is naive. The trade is supported by at one end by people who don't care about deaths, and at the other by people willing to use those deaths to advocate "decrimnalization".
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If you want to go after the real smugglers, the money men in Indonesia and Malaysia, then I'm all for it. Prosecute the **** out of those guys.

But jailing impoverished fishermen who have been employed to make the journey and using policies like destroying boats which can lead to only one result, the use of cheaper more disposable boats and the sinking of more vessels.

It's a better idea than what the sick bastards on your side of the debate propose, the jailing and mental torture of men women and children in extralegal hellholes in the middle of the Pacific as a deterrent to others, because you're oh-so human and all :rolleyes:

You may as well just go all out and execute a few live on television, that'll surely act as more of a deterrent. If we can just make Australia worse than the place refugees are fleeing from then we will have eliminate the 'pull factor' altogether!
 
bit_pattern said:
It's a better idea than what the sick bastards on your side of the debate propose, the jailing and mental torture of men women and children in extralegal hellholes in the middle of the Pacific as a deterrent to others, because you're oh-so human and all :rolleyes:
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As opposed to others who advocate letting people (predictably) drown at sea. Much more humane from the really, and truly sick bastards on your side of the debate.

Fair dinkum idiots!

bit_pattern said:
You may as well just go all out and execute a few live on television, that'll surely act as more of a deterrent.
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We saw your policies effectively execute 50 of them live at Christmas Island 12 months ago brains, it didn't work then.

You must be so proud of the influence the morons Greens have to enable them to have such humane policies as we have now. The same policies that have cost just a few hundred more lives.
 
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A.A. Alfie said:
As opposed to others who advocate letting people (predictably) drown at sea. Much more humane from the really, and truly sick bastards on your side of the debate.
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Nooo, if you were capable of keeping up Alfie you'd know that it is opposed to others who advocate using harm minimisation policies that don't encourage the use of disposable boats and disposable crews and allow journeys to be planned in the open in a way that doesn't allow criminals to corner a lucrative niche market.


We saw your policies effectively execute 50 of them live at Christmas Island 12 months ago brains, it didn't work then.

You must be so proud of the influence the morons Greens have to enable them to have such humane policies as we have now. The same policies that have cost just a few hundred more lives.
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No, the reason we have the policies we have now is because the Coalition voted down changes that would have legalised off shore processing again in the light of a High Court decision (a case the greens were not involved in btw) that found it illegal.

The only person to blame for today's policies is Tony 'Dr. No' Abbott.

But is all academic anyway because you haven't shown anything approaching real evidence that these people wouldn't have gotten on this boat if off shore processing was in place and you have actively denied evidence that clearly shows that Australia's asylum claim numbers fluctuate in line with the global fluctuations.

The fact that you cry crocodile tears over your "concern" (ever heard of a concern troll? :rolleyes:) for the welfare of asylum seekers then cynically exploit their deaths to score cheap political points would be stomach churning if my regard for you was actually high enough to give a **** about what you think.
 
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