Anarchy in Seattle--Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

[dudalb]

Assuming the cops remain in the are and prevent the CHOP from setting back up, I wonder how the PD is going to handle a return of nightly protest marches that seem likely.

I suppose this block might get a little rest as the cops tear gas and beat protesters in other parts of of the city.

Ah, sore your little Hippie commune di dnot last very long.

 

[William Parcher]

CHOP is not Lord of the Flies. There is no resemblance.

 

[dudalb]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/us/seattle-chop-protesters/index.html

If people can't even keep a place clean, how can they be expected to lead any kind of reasonable life there?

Problem with CHOP was they wanted to be some kind of indenpendent country without assuming the reponsiblities that governments have to assume.

 

[rockinkt]

Oh, you would be horrified if you knew how the rest of the world views the US.

The powerful and influential rarely care about what the weak and insignificant think.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Post #3

Should be a nice little holiday from police violence for these people who have been suffering over a week of violent suppression from the Seattle Police.


https://twitter.com/Papa_Cody/status/1270942039228608516

I've never had much expectations that the CHAZ was a long term viable project. Nor do I think anyone on the ground thought so either.

Problem with CHOP was they wanted to be some kind of indenpendent country without assuming the reponsiblities that governments have to assume.

You have a citation for that whopper? Even the anarchist daydreamers don't think a couple city blocks can be a truly independent zone within a larger city.

Recall exactly why the CHAZ was even possible. Cops pulled back because their handling of the protests was an unmitigated scandal. Their widespread use of teargas was an embarrassment to the city.

Unless tactics have changed, I assume the cops will resume being embarrassments and gassing people, just as the Portland PD has been doing in the interim.

 

[portlandatheist]

The police need more accountability to the people. Replacing them with people with even less accountability to the people isn't exactly a recipe for success.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

One can be violently anti Trump but still think that CHOP was always doomed to fail.
A lot of sillliness on both sides of the spectrum on this issue.

That doesn't address what I was replying to. Stout was calling the BLM protesters murderers.

Trump has made ludicrous claims like the protesters were rioters and looters. As far as I know not a single business in the Zone was looted or burned.

You call that "silliness"?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Ah, sore your little Hippie commune di dnot last very long.

That's quite the imagination you have there.

 

[portlandatheist]

Great article in the Bulwark: The Grim Lessons of CHOP
The article concludes:

But reform means: lobbying for new rules and laws, electing new public officials, and doing the follow-up to make sure the new rules are actually implemented and lead to the intended results.

This is difficult and often unglamorous, but there is no better alternative. When you hand over the use of force to an unthinking, unaccountable mob and the self-appointed “voices” of the collective—well, we now have a perfect illustration of where that gets you.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Problem with CHOP was they wanted to be some kind of indenpendent country without assuming the reponsiblities that governments have to assume.

They made some demands, most of which were never going to happen. That is not an "independent country". One of the reasons they changed the name from autonomous zone to occupied protest was to make it clear they were not looking for some independent self-run commune or country.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Sure, it's a little over the top but it raises the question why these people who could be reasonably expected to support an action like CHOP when it's at a distance are up in arms when it's happening on their doorstep.

It's got to happen on somebody's doorstep, right.

It doesn't seem that confusing to me. I support the concepts behind the [protests whole-heartedly. But I don't want them protesting in my front yard. Partly because... well, I'm not the person to be protesting in front of, there's not really much I personally can do. Also partly because it's disruptive and in my way - it's hard to back the car out so I can get to the store when there's a pile of protesters in the way. And also because it can be a bit intimidating - almost any protest involves strong feelings, so for someone who lives in the area, even if they support the ideal, it can be intimidating to be surrounded by people with very strong feelings and emotions. It's not like protests getting out of hand and turning into riots is a particularly rare kind of thing...

 

[arthwollipot]

The powerful and influential rarely care about what the weak and insignificant think.

Tell China that it's "weak and insignificant". Go on, I dare you.

 

[Stout]

Tell me, Mr Law and Order, do you see Trump and Barr adhering to the law? Curious minds want to know.

Ah the old but, but, but TRUMP ! argument. What about him, he's a douchebag. Who the hell is Barr ? Rosanne ? Connected to CHOP in any way ?

Were you planning on making an argument that this wasn't a murder ? A hunting accident of some sorts. Maybe there was a deer spotted wandering down the street and CHOP security decided to shoot the crap out of it so they could feed the masses and the SUV just happened to get in the way of the hail of bullets.

The Seattle police chief agrees that this was a murder and she's black.

 

[Stout]

It doesn't seem that confusing to me. I support the concepts behind the [protests whole-heartedly. But I don't want them protesting in my front yard. Partly because... well, I'm not the person to be protesting in front of, there's not really much I personally can do. Also partly because it's disruptive and in my way - it's hard to back the car out so I can get to the store when there's a pile of protesters in the way. And also because it can be a bit intimidating - almost any protest involves strong feelings, so for someone who lives in the area, even if they support the ideal, it can be intimidating to be surrounded by people with very strong feelings and emotions. It's not like protests getting out of hand and turning into riots is a particularly rare kind of thing...

Agreed. Nobody want's this on their doorstep no matter how progressive residents and business think they are because when push comes to shove a lot of those high ideals take a backseat to ideas like personal safety.

Speaking of strong feelings, and Seattle, and Capitol Hill did anybody catch that Karen in a GEO metro thing ? As a bonus, Ophelia Benson, I'm sure you all remember her.

Now that CHOP has met the chopping block.

 

[arthwollipot]

Ah the old but, but, but TRUMP ! argument. What about him, he's a douchebag. Who the hell is Barr ? Rosanne ? Connected to CHOP in any way ?

Oh come on. Even I know that William Barr is the United States Attorney General, and a Trump toadie through and through.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Ah the old but, but, but TRUMP ! argument. What about him, he's a douchebag. Who the hell is Barr ? Rosanne ? Connected to CHOP in any way ?

Trump is taking credit for the city ending CHOP. McEninny said so today. The city moved because they were afraid Trump would send in the army.

So if they shut up about this, you might have a point. Otherwise you don't.

Were you planning on making an argument that this wasn't a murder ? A hunting accident of some sorts. Maybe there was a deer spotted wandering down the street and CHOP security decided to shoot the crap out of it so they could feed the masses and the SUV just happened to get in the way of the hail of bullets.

The Seattle police chief agrees that this was a murder and she's black.

I never said the two deaths weren't murders. I object to you conflating the protests with murderers.

One thing I heard today about those murders is they got attention because they moved to a white part of town. Had the murders occurred in the Central District, the media would not have paid as much attention.

I heard another thing today that fit with my POV. One of the leaders of the protest agreed it was time to end it because their message was getting lost.

BTW, there was no damage inside the police precinct. There was no looting. There has been no rioting.

 

[Stout]

Oh come on. Even I know that William Barr is the United States Attorney General, and a Trump toadie through and through.

Thanks for the info. Was he in any way involved in CHOP or is his mention just another "hey look over there" type of distraction ?

 

[arthwollipot]

Thanks for the info. Was he in any way involved in CHOP or is his mention just another "hey look over there" type of distraction ?

Inasmuch as he is the most senior lawyer in the whole country, and a Trump cronie.

 

[Stout]

Trump is taking credit for the city ending CHOP. McEninny said so today. The city moved because they were afraid Trump would send in the army.

Yes, I get it. Orange Man Bad ! Now Ms. Anarchy what's this got to do with adhering to the law ?

I never said the two deaths weren't murders. I object to you conflating the protests with murderers.

One thing I heard today about those murders is they got attention because they moved to a white part of town. Had the murders occurred in the Central District, the media would not have paid as much attention.

Whew, I thought you were trying to downplay the seriousness of these executions, glad to see we're on the same page here. They were most defiantly connected to the protests as the security was in place because of the protests.

It's all over now though. Capitol Hill has been liberated much like how Europe was liberated during the D-Day invasion and the denizens of the area are now free to live their lives and conduct business unmolested.

Getting media attention was what this whole thing was all about.

 

[dudalb]

Post #3



I've never had much expectations that the CHAZ was a long term viable project. Nor do I think anyone on the ground thought so either.



You have a citation for that whopper? Even the anarchist daydreamers don't think a couple city blocks can be a truly independent zone within a larger city.

Recall exactly why the CHAZ was even possible. Cops pulled back because their handling of the protests was an unmitigated scandal. Their widespread use of teargas was an embarrassment to the city.

Unless tactics have changed, I assume the cops will resume being embarrassments and gassing people, just as the Portland PD has been doing in the interim.

You just plain old hate the police period.