An eye opening piece regarding Holocaust denial

[slingblade]

Out of curiosity how many people were taught about the Holocaust in school (not college and beyond)? Certainly when I was in school (late seventies early eighties) it wasn't part of any history curriculum.

I was. It was part of our history classes.

One thing that surprised me about teaching was that in spite of how much had changed since I'd been a child, so much was exactly the same. I don't know if that we read The Diary of Ann Frank in 1972 and that students still read it now is because it is the best book of its kind for children, or because it's the book we've always read, and no one has thought to seek another.

But anyway, yes, my school taught us about the Holocaust. We read Corrie Ten Boom's The Hiding Place, and later, in 1978, there was a mini-series on TV called "Holocaust," based on the book by Gerald Green.

It rather seems my teen years were full of Holocaust readings, now that I think of it.

 

[corplinx]

The unfortunate thing is the holocaust wasn't a "jewish" thing but because so many of the holocaust victims were jewish we have people that would deny it. Would they deny that cleansing took place if there had been 6 million victims whose crime it was to be left handed?

 

[Random]

Out of curiosity how many people were taught about the Holocaust in school (not college and beyond)? Certainly when I was in school (late seventies early eighties) it wasn't part of any history curriculum.

It was kind of weird. None of my history classes seemed to get that far. They were all paced badly when I was growing up and we’d never get very far past WWI before the end of the school year. It took me a while to realize as a child that WWI did not involve Nazis.

 

[Geckko]

The unfortunate thing is the holocaust wasn't a "jewish" thing but because so many of the holocaust victims were jewish we have people that would deny it. Would they deny that cleansing took place if there had been 6 million victims whose crime it was to be left handed?

I can't agree more.

This was a crime against humanity. It was perpetrated against people who, for all intent and purpose, were no different to you or I.

 

[steverino]

Out of curiosity how many people were taught about the Holocaust in school (not college and beyond)? Certainly when I was in school (late seventies early eighties) it wasn't part of any history curriculum.

Good question. I think the Holocaust was discussed in grade school and junior high, but not until high school was it part of an actual lesson or homework assignment. Almost half my grade school was Jewish so there was an awareness via Hebrew school, movies, books, but probably not directly through school lessons.

My parents took me to Expo-70 in Osaka, Japan, to see the world's fair there. I was ten, and was not aware of Hiroshima and Nagasaki at that time. I recall an old man in Tokyo with a terribly charred face and asked my parents how he got that and they "shooshed" me. (Maybe he was a fire-bombing victim) We learned in grade school about Pearl Harbor and the war with Japan in general. Maybe in high school we learned (about nuking Japan) in class.

 

[marksman]

I learned about it in 8th grade history class. Early '80s.

 

[senorpogo]

But their is a difference between ignorance and denial.

I was just about to type that. Nearly word for word. Nice.

edit: but I would have used "there"

 

[Merko]

I think it illustrates the point that many of the problems of the Middle East are related to the poor level of education. Even when they get education, the schools are likely to teach 'official' truths on many subjects, with predictable results.

Given adequate education, I see no reason to believe that people from the Middle East would somehow be more naturally disposed towards racism than others.

 

[Kiwiwriter]

Why they spout that...

I’m not understanding the point of view of the sister. “The holocaust didn’t happen but I wish it did?” What’s that about? Going through the mental contortions needed to deny the holocaust while thinking it would be a good idea doesn’t make any sense to me. Wouldn’t you be saying “Hooray for the Holocaust” or something? Why is the holocaust something you would want to deny?

You have to remember that Holocaust deniers do not really, in the end, deny the Holocaust. They love it. They think it's great. They think the Jews got what they deserved, and that it should be run again, with greater efficiency, with themselves as the SS Obersturmbahnfuhrers running the camps. Even in denying it, they are fascinated with it, and by connecting themselves to Nazism in that fashion, and the Holocaust, they can believe that they themselves are part of it, and can murder millions without fear of retribution...a great change from the pathetic lives and lies of most neo-Nazis.

What they really want to change is the narrative of the Holocaust...that it was not a horrific act of mass genocide by a large group of bloodthirsty sadistic thugs and cold intellectuals...but a race of heroic, blonde, blue-eyed Aryans with big muscles and bigger husbands saving the white race and their children from a subhuman pestilential bacillic conspiracy to destroy them. The Aryans, in this narrative, kept true to their faith in their Fuhrer, and undertook the holy task of ridding the world of these lying money-grubbing, diseases cockroaches, and in the end, triumphed, turning the world into a paradise for their race.

They want to see the death camps as memorials to the guards and the bosses, not the victims.

 

[marksman]

Given adequate education, I see no reason to believe that people from the Middle East would somehow be more naturally disposed towards racism than others.

Any proposals on how Western governments could convince Middle Eastern governments to provide adequate education to its subjects?

 

[Pardalis]

I think it illustrates the point that many of the problems of the Middle East are related to the poor level of education. Even when they get education, the schools are likely to teach 'official' truths on many subjects, with predictable results.

Given adequate education, I see no reason to believe that people from the Middle East would somehow be more naturally disposed towards racism than others.

How is the Middle East lacking in education?

 

[slingblade]

How is the Middle East lacking in education?

From what I can tell from news reports and other sources, it seems rather spotty for girls and women, depending on several factors. In some Middle Eastern nations, education for girls is permitted. In others, it's not, or it bounces back and forth from being okay to being forbidden.

That's one.

 

[steverino]

but a race of heroic, blonde, blue-eyed Aryans with big muscles and bigger husbands saving the white race and their children from a subhuman pestilential bacillic conspiracy to destroy them. The Aryans...

I know this is a kindergarten question (pardon my German) but why did people follow a non-Aryan leader who espoused such rubbish?

 

[UserGoogol]

I’m not understanding the point of view of the sister. “The holocaust didn’t happen but I wish it did?” What’s that about? Going through the mental contortions needed to deny the holocaust while thinking it would be a good idea doesn’t make any sense to me. Wouldn’t you be saying “Hooray for the Holocaust” or something? Why is the holocaust something you would want to deny?

The logic seems fairly obvious to me. If you accept the faulty premise that Jews are dirty scum who are phenomenally good at tricking people, then of course you need to be constantly on the watch for these "Jew lies." The story of the Holocaust is a rather big claim that makes Jews look rather pitiable in the eyes of many, so it sounds like something Jews might make up. Additionally, how the hell could the Germans trick the Jews like that? If Jews are so crafty, then how could they fall for something as big as the Holocaust? Therefore, if a person is suffciently anti-semitic, the holocaust just seems like a rather suspicious story. Holocaust denial need not derive from a "I don't want the Holocaust to be true" perspective, although in practice, that's probably often a factor.

 

[Kiwiwriter]

It's funnier than that, mate...

I know this is a kindergarten question (pardon my German) but why did people follow a non-Aryan leader who espoused such rubbish?

Remember, an Aryan is

slim: like Goering
tall: like Goebbels
blonde: like Hess
heroic: like Himmler
rational: like Hitler.

 

[Pardalis]

I thought it was hairy: like Hitler...

 

[Kiwiwriter]

'Fraid not...

I thought it was hairy: like Hitler...

No, Aryans have hair. On the other hand, Hitler suffered from incontinence, halitosis, and flatulence. His all-day staff conferences, held in rooms without ventilation, were ordeals for all but him.

 

[Ralph]

There are some things from my childhood that still seem so clear that it was as if it only happened yesterday.

It was the early 60's---Adolph Eichmann's trial was underway and Life magazine did a story on some of the events that occurred in the death camps. There were no photos but there were some very graphic accounts of nazi atrocities.

I would've been 9 or 10 years old at the time. I knew about WW2--I knew millions of people had died but I still remember how upset I felt reading about things like this. I was truly horrified that people could do things like this to other human beings.

I remember being taught in school about this. I'm surprised that it's not part of many history class being taught at the high school level today. WW2 was the defining event of the last century and this was certainly a significant part of it.

Too bad some kind of "accident" didn't happen at the gathering of holocaust-denying maniacs in Iran. The world would be better off for it.

 

[jimlintott]

I seem to remember learning about the Holocaust in school but I've learned much more since. My two kids studied both WW1 and WW2 in high school history. Each war was studied in different years and in fairly decent detail.

 

[a_unique_person]

You have to remember that Holocaust deniers do not really, in the end, deny the Holocaust. They love it. They think it's great. They think the Jews got what they deserved, and that it should be run again, with greater efficiency, with themselves as the SS Obersturmbahnfuhrers running the camps. Even in denying it, they are fascinated with it, and by connecting themselves to Nazism in that fashion, and the Holocaust, they can believe that they themselves are part of it, and can murder millions without fear of retribution...a great change from the pathetic lives and lies of most neo-Nazis.

From what I can gather from looking at David Irving's website, he is first and foremost a Hitler and Nazi admirer. He even sells Hitlers 'art' on his web site. He seems to hate the Jews because the of the bad name it gives Hitler, and, I presume, because Hitler did. That is Nazi first.