An angry Clinton on Fox

[CFLarsen]

Sure there is: experience.

That's your problem. Not mine.

But it pleases me that you aren't going to obsess about my poetic license and derail this thread.

Do you think you could tune the prejudice down a bit?

 

[HarryKeogh]

You are aware that quickly kissing each other on the lips and walking hand in hand are both perfectly acceptable customs for males in the Arab world?

Yeah, but Bush isn't an Arab and this was in Texas. And it is an odd image to see the "leader of the free world" holding hands with the Crown Prince of a country that produced 15 of the 19 hijackers, jails dissidents and is a breeding ground for terrorists with their teaching of Wahhabism in the schools.

There are plenty of customs in the world but people are usually under no obligation to follow them. If I was granted an audience (however unlikely) with the Pope I ain't bending down and kissing his ring.

Oh, and I think that photo of the lip kissing is doctored. The usual custom is kissing on the cheeks.

 

[Reager]

Actually, Wallace posed the same question to Sec. Rumsfeld some time ago. There's a link to the transcript in one of my comments above.

Heh, and how many other questions did Wallace ask other Bush admin officials about their handling of OBL pre-9/11? Did you read the Media Matters link?

In the March 28, 2004, interview with Rumsfeld, Wallace did press him on whether the Department of Defense should have "been thinking more about" terrorism prior to 9-11 and asked him to respond to the "basic charge that, pre-9-11 ... this government, the Bush administration, largely ignored the threat from Al Qaeda." ... But beyond this exchange, the Fox News Sunday interviews listed above have almost entirely ignored several key questions regarding the Bush administration's efforts to pursue bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

...News of the August 6 memo first broke on May 18, 2002. During Cheney's appearance on Fox News Sunday the following day, Snow brought up the memo and asked him, "Why didn't we connect the dots?" But in their subsequent interviews with Bush administration officials, Wallace and Snow repeatedly failed to ask them if they regretted not reacting more forcefully to it. Wallace even avoided questioning Rice about it days after she discussed the memo during her testimony before the 9-11 Commission, as the weblog Think Progress noted.

...In his numerous interviews with Bush administration officials, Wallace mentioned [Richard] Clarke only once, as Think Progress noted, in the March 28, 2004, interview with Rumsfeld. But in that interview, Wallace failed to question Rumsfeld on Clarke's demotion.

...no Bush administration official has ever been asked about the administration's lack of response to the Cole bombing by a host of Fox News Sunday -- this despite the fact that the FBI and CIA did not certify that bin Laden was responsible for the attack until early 2001.

...in their subsequent appearances on Fox News Sunday, senior Bush aides did not face any questions regarding the Bush administration's decision-making at Tora Bora.

...Since Suskind's book release in June, Wallace has interviewed both Rice and Hadley, but he did not ask either of them about this revelation.

Are you seriously arguing that asking one or two questions over the course of 5 years and 43 separate interviews is not equivalent to giving the Bush admin a pass?

 

[CFLarsen]

Yeah, but Bush isn't an Arab and this was in Texas.

So, if he was in Saudi Arabia, things would be different?

And it is an odd image to see the "leader of the free world" holding hands with the Crown Prince of a country that produced 15 of the 19 hijackers, jails dissidents and is a breeding ground for terrorists with their teaching of Wahhabism in the schools.

Is the Crown Prince responsible for 9/11?

There are plenty of customs in the world but people are usually under no obligation to follow them. If I was granted an audience (however unlikely) with the Pope I ain't bending down and kissing his ring.

Who expects you to do that?

Oh, and I think that photo of the lip kissing is doctored. The usual custom is kissing on the cheeks.

No, if you are on friendly terms, you can kiss on the lips. Briefly, and if both are males. But I agree, the photo looks doctored. Which is why I asked Steve for sources.

 

[HarryKeogh]

No, if you are on friendly terms, you can kiss on the lips. Briefly, and if both are males.

Read what I say: "the usual custom" is kissing on the cheeks. I've Googled and am having trouble finding websites detailing lip to lip kissing greetings. Plenty about cheek kissing though.

 

[Jocko]

Read what I say: "the usual custom" is kissing on the cheeks. I've Googled and am having trouble finding websites detailing lip to lip kissing greetings. Plenty about cheek kissing though.

I think Claus has mixed up his personal and academic "Favorites" folders once again, if you catch my drift.

[modp]Please, keep focused on the subject of discussion.[/modp]

 

[Upchurch]

Do you think you could tune the prejudice down a bit?

How ironic it is that you, of all people, should ask others to not be prejudice.

 

[CFLarsen]

Read what I say: "the usual custom" is kissing on the cheeks. I've Googled and am having trouble finding websites detailing lip to lip kissing greetings. Plenty about cheek kissing though.

Two men kissing each other quickly on the lips when greeting is an expression of friendship.
Source

How ironic it is that you, of all people, should ask others to not be prejudice.

Apparently not.

Oh, well.

 

[Jocko]

On page 1 of a thread, it's prejudice.
By page 3, it's just plain judice, and amply demonstrated at that.

 

[HarryKeogh]

Claus, I'm just debating which is the more usual custom. I never said it doesn't happen, just that I had trouble finding any webpages detailing lip kissing and I didn't have any problem finding webpages detailing kissing on the cheek. Judging by the number of websites that describe cheek to cheek kissing as opposed to kissing on the lips it seems cheek to cheek is more usual (in fact, that's how Bush kissed the Crown Prince unless that pic on page one isn't Photoshopped then he kissed him both ways).

Do you have an opinion as to which is the more common custom? I said cheek kissing was the usual custom and you flatly said no it wasn't. You're so sure but what do you base that on?

anyway...
http://www.cyborlink.com/besite/uae.htm

A more traditional greeting between men involves grasping each other’s right hand, placing the left hand on the other’s right shoulder and exchanging kisses on each cheek.

http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/resources/global-etiquette/morocco-country-profile.html

Once a relationship has developed, it is common to kiss on both cheeks, starting with the left cheek while shaking hands, men with men and women with women.

So unless you have definitive proof that one custom is more usual than the other don't flatly declare mine wrong especially when this discussion between us started with an Arab kissing a non-Arab. I'm sure lip-kissing is even more rare there.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I haven’t seen the entire interview, Just segments on Cspan1. However I agree with Clinton that this was an obvious attack and setup on the part of the Conservative pro Bush FoxNews. I admire Clinton for being able to defend himself like he did against the attacks. He damn sure put that Wallace guy in his place.

 

[CFLarsen]

So unless you have definitive proof that one custom is more usual than the other don't flatly declare mine wrong especially when this discussion between us started with an Arab kissing a non-Arab. I'm sure lip-kissing is even more rare there.

Who said anything about what custom was the more common? I sure didn't.

The question is not whether which custom is the more common. The question is if two men kissing briefly is a custom which demonstrates a sign of friendship.

It is. Men who are on friendly terms also hold hands. There's nothing sinister to it.

 

[Jocko]

Who said anything about what custom was the more common? I sure didn't.

Liar.

Harry:

The usual custom is kissing on the cheeks.

Claus:

No, if you are on friendly terms, you can kiss on the lips. Briefly, and if both are males.

See, when someone says X is customary, and you respond with "No, Y is customary," then you bloody well are saying which one is more usual, i.e., common.

Your semantic butchery knows no limits, does it?

 

[CFLarsen]

Liar.

Harry:


Claus:


See, when someone says X is customary, and you respond with "No, Y is customary," then you bloody well are saying which one is more usual, i.e., common.

Your semantic butchery knows no limits, does it?

Take a reading comprehension class, before you call someone "liar".

I am saying "no" to lip-kissing among male friends being fabricated. While the photo certainly looks doctored, lip-kissing among male friends is indeed a custom.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Harry:

Claus, I'm just debating which is the more usual custom. I never said it doesn't happen, just that I had trouble finding any webpages detailing lip kissing and I didn't have any problem finding webpages detailing kissing on the cheek. Judging by the number of websites that describe cheek to cheek kissing as opposed to kissing on the lips it seems cheek to cheek is more usual (in fact, that's how Bush kissed the Crown Prince unless that pic on page one isn't Photoshopped then he kissed him both ways).

Harry ....

I am not very up on photoshopping so don't know if these photos were doctored or not. I recall getting the pix I posted from google images and in searching there again just now found the following:

http://images.google.com/images?q=bush+kissing+abdullah&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

 

[Upchurch]

Wow. I sure am glad that I don't have to worry about Claus's obsession with irrelevent details derailing this thread.

 

[HarryKeogh]

See, when someone says X is customary, and you respond with "No, Y is customary," then you bloody well are saying which one is more usual, i.e., common.

Your semantic butchery knows no limits, does it?

Thanks, Jocko. Glad someone sees where the confusion lies.

 

[Jocko]

Take a reading comprehension class, before you call someone "liar".

I am saying "no" to lip-kissing among male friends being fabricated. While the photo certainly looks doctored, lip-kissing among male friends is indeed a custom.

I showed you precisely what you were saying "no" to, and it wasn't that... liar.

Once more, for the record: You are a liar in that statement.

 

[Jocko]

Wow. I sure am glad that I don't have to worry about Claus's obsession with irrelevent details derailing this thread.

Can it be called worrying when it's a foregone conclusion?

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
Thank you for driving the point home for me. They were reported on reluctantly by the leftist media giants after conservative outlets pounded on them relentlessly, and they were presented as "non-scandals." Gennifer Flowers was pooh-poohed during Clinton's first campaign, and there was a virtual parade of them forever afterward.

I'll have what he's having!

Foster's in the bottle.

(Hey, at least it ain't whiskey...............)

Speaking of spin yet again, Random didn't say the media presented them as non-scandals.

Sorry. That's exactly what he wrote:

...Have you forgottent the giant parade of non-scandals that were breathlessly reported on all the alphabet networks seven days a week, even though none of them went anywhere?...

To my memory, both the politicians and the media took them very seriously at the time. They just mostly didn't go anywhere, because there was very little of substance to them.

Actually, I agree. At least the media ended up reporting about Gennifer Flowers during Clinton's first campaign, unlike the JFK situation.

George Bush 1 actually used the phrase, "Who are you gonna' trust?" as a campaign slogan. Spent a lot of money on it, too.

And there was every bit of substance to them, and then some.

Remember Monica?