Amway TV ad

[Tex2]

Jeff, that's because your wife's friend was caught up in the tool scam.

 

[Jackalgirl]

It can also be shown that >90% of people who do what is suggested to succeed in Amway, do in fact succeed.

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about Amway. Forgive me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before (I haven't gotten all the way through this thread yet), but what specifically is suggested to succeed in Amway? That is, what does Amway (or any other Amway expert) tell you you have to do in order to succeed?

Also, where is this statistic shown?

 

[Tex2]

In order to succeed, you have to ensure you're not getting ripped off via the tool scam.

 

[cyborg]

Done. Next?

 

[Almo]

Almo, if Jonny is as intelligent as the rest of you on this thread, I'm not interested in reading his BS.

He's an insurance adjuster, if I remember correctly.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3644763&postcount=178

This lays out the fundamental problem with MLM as a concept. Ignore it at your own financial peril.

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about Amway. Forgive me if I'm asking a question that has been asked before (I haven't gotten all the way through this thread yet), but what specifically is suggested to succeed in Amway? That is, what does Amway (or any other Amway expert) tell you you have to do in order to succeed?

Also, where is this statistic shown?

Icerat left this thread a while back. It's unlikely he'll see this question. Though maybe he's lurking. Dunno.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

Done. Next?

Recruit a huge downline and live off the residuals.

ETA: Start your own tool scam.

 

[Tex2]

cyborg, make a phone call.

Almo, I read it. Jonny is clueless. Icerat/ibofb lurks everywhere.

Cynical, what's wrong with a huge downline? Isn't that the idea of MLM? Also, which of the below, if any, ETA did you mean?

ETA Estimated Time of Arrival (also seen as ETOA)
ETA Employment and Training Administration (US Department of Labor)
ETA Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (Basque Homeland and Liberty; terrorist group in Spain)
ETA Electronic Travel Authority
ETA Edited to Add
ETA Environmental Transport Association (UK)
ETA Electronics Technicians Association (Greencastle, IN)
ETA Electronic Transactions Association
ETA European Technical Approval
ETA English Teachers Association
ETA Expected Time of Arrival
ETA Electronic Tax Administration
ETA Elvis Tribute Artist
ETA Electronic Transfer Account
ETA Event Tree Analysis
ETA Evangelical Training Association
ETA Eu Te Amo (Portuguese: I Love You)
ETA European Thyroid Association
ETA Effective Tax Administration
ETA Egyptian Tourist Authority
ETA Electronic Travel Aid
ETA Electronic Transportation Acquisition
ETA Entertainment Technology Alliance
ETA Embroidery Trade Association
ETA Executive Travel Associates
ETA Extension Travel Adjustment (Marzocchi bicycle forks)
ETA Energy Tax Act
ETA Estimated Transmitting Ability (cow breeding)
ETA Elektrotechnische Apparate GmbH (Nuremburg, Germany)
ETA European Tugowners' Association
ETA Exact Time of Arrival
ETA Eesti Teadeteagentuur (Estonian News Agency)
ETA Embedded Transport Acceleration (Intel)
ETA Experimental Test Accelerator
ETA Experience the Adventure
ETA Energy Technology Assessment
ETA Extraterrestrial Activity
ETA Elgin Teachers Association
ETA Event Tracking Agent
EtA Eternal Allegiance (fan site)
ETA External Tank Attachment
ETA Extraterrestrial Artifact
ETA Engineering Technologies Associates
ETA Emergency Tire Assistance
ETA Engineering Technologies Academy
ETA Engineering Technical Assistant
ETA Eelam Tamil Association (Sydney, Australia)
ETA Emergency Towing Arrangement (requirement at forward & aft ends of oil tanker)
ETA Electronic Test Automation
ETA Etnoteam Adriatica
ETA Estimated Time Available
ETA E-Sektionens Teletekniska Avdelning
ETA Enterprise Transaction Archive
ETA Electronic Target Acquisition (also sometimes abbreviated as E/TA)
ETA Emergency Transport Attendant
ETA Engineering Test Article
ETA Eastern Training Area
ETA Ellenville Teachers Association
ETA Erosion Transport Accumulation
ETA Estimated Time for Accomplishment
ETA Engineering Task Assignment
ETA Exception Time Accounting
ETA Electro-Thermal Atomizer
ETA Evan Terry Associates, PC (Birmingham, AL)
ETA Earthville Travel Adventures
ETA European Tropospheric-Scatter Army (communications system)
ETA External Tank Attack
ETA Electronics Test Area
ETA EOOW Training Assistant
ETA Enterprise Transaction Analysis
ETA Estimated Time Allocation (project management)
ETA Extra Terrestrial Alien

 

[Ferguson]

...
ETA Electronic Travel Authority
ETA Edited to Add
ETA Environmental Transport Association (UK)
ETA Electronics Technicians Association (Greencastle, IN)
...

Seems pretty obvious.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Gimmick posts are lame.

I'm still waiting for some financial details from tex on his business. We never got around to talking about that. I posted numbers for my business, now it's your turn.

 

[NewtonTrino]

We had a discussion in this thread earlier about using hourly rates to compare investments. It seems J5 also addressed this issue in the other thread.

JohnnyFive:

You may say that hourly rates mean nothing in business, but that's only true in terms of "I am growing my business and don't care about the hours because I will be rewarded later." In terms of analysis of sales and investment performance, it provides a very useful metric (for example, hourly rates are extremely enlightening when examining nontraditional investments like "house flipping") to determine whether or not you'd be better off, say, putting your money into another form of investment rather than putting it into your Amway/Quixtar business.

 

[cyborg]

cyborg, make a phone call.

No thanks - I don't have access to skype and I sure as hell am not calling international on a mobile.

Cynical, what's wrong with a huge downline? Isn't that the idea of MLM?

1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, 32768, 65536, 131072, 262144, 524288, 1048576, 2097152, 4194304, 8388608, 16777216, 33554432, 67108864, 134217728, 268435456

Numbers can't lie.

 

[Tex2]

Ferguson, nothing is obvious on this forum, especially when the use of facts is so rare. LOL

Newton, you missed the point. If you want to discuss further, make another call.

Newton, you are missing the multiplier effect.

Cyborg, good, it would probably be a waste of time anyway. Your numbers aren't based on reality. Reality doesn't lie.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I haven't missed any effect. Defending Amway as a way to make money is a freakin joke man. Please find me someone that's actually making money in this business that isn't a tools kingpin. You would be better off spending your hours at Mickeys. And if you are one of the ones at the top of pyramid that are making money you are basically just sucking it out of your downline while they lose. Either way stay away!

 

[cyborg]

Your numbers aren't based on reality. Reality doesn't lie.

In what way is the series of powers of two not based on reality?

 

[Porkchopjim]

Also, which of the below, if any, ETA did you mean?

Don't expect Tex to read any of the rules or explainations himself - it plainly says what ETA means, Texie!

For the rest of you, you've now fallen into Texreality - according to plan. Not only will he dispute basic math (cyborg's numbers) - he will haunt this thread due to a Texprinciple called:

"The Last Word"

No matter how deep a hole Texie has dug himself, if he can own the last post, and therefore have "The Last Word" - he has won! Wins in Texreality aren't what we're normally used to - so don't try to understand his particular version of web-based narcissitic personality disorder.

But don't worry - Tex is an e-thug. He only has cubes when he's safe behind the keyboard. Those who have met him in person will attest so.

You don't need financial details from Tex. He's confirmed them earlier - 16+ years in Amway, maxed at about 10 downline (years ago), and is lucky if someone other than him pays for his Amway products. He has no business now other than the lofty name of "Tex Enterprises."

Well, Tex, at least you were successful in "showing" someone the "facts" on your teleconference: Newton has referred to you as 'hopelessly deluded' which is 100% fact.

 

[Tex2]

Newton, you're going over issues that have been addressed already, and you didn't respond. Without a tool scam, a much higher percentage of IBOs make a net profit, and those who aren't, are also not losing nearly as much. You're TOTALLY clueless. LOL

cyborg, human nature does not obey mathematical formulae. LOL

pcj, it's spelled "explanation", not "explaination". Other than that, you are clueless. LOL

 

[NewtonTrino]

I dispute the fact that removing the tools scam suddenly turns amway into a profitable business. If you think it does that's fine but you have zero proof.

 

[Tex2]

Newton, are you KIDDING me? This is so obvious it's laughable. LOL

For a site that promotes "critical thinking", you and the rest are falling WAY short. An IBO at 100, 1,000, 2,500, 4,000, etc., would pay FAR less money without a tool scam and be net profitable earlier. This is simple addition and subtraction. Get a grip and a clue, please. QED/LOL

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

cyborg, human nature does not obey mathematical formulae. LOL

True, but irrelevant. MLMs can not work (for everyone) without infinite exponential growth. An individual can't profit without a big downline. Everyone in that downline can't profit without their own big downlines, everyone in those downlines can't profit without their own big downlines.

It doesn't take long before you run out of victims.

MLM is just a legal pyramid scam.

 

[icerat]

I can't believe you folk are still carrying on this thread. Time to re-enter to address some of the BS being sprouted.

CynicalSkeptic - your math is fine, unfortunately what you're talking about is a pyramid scheme and not legitimate MLMs. It doesn't matter how good your math is if your assumptions are wrong, and yours are wrong for a number of reasons, but I'll take the simplest for now.

I have people in my downline who have ZERO downline, and they profit. One of the simplest defining marks between legitimate MLM and illegal pyramids is the answer to a theoretical question "can the last person who joins profit?"

If the answer is No, as you are claiming, then it isn't an MLM, it's an illegal pyramid.

So, by definition, what you are talking about is NOT an MLM.

Having said that, there are many companies that call themselves MLM that are not, they are illegal pyramids. One problem may be that you're believing them when they say they are MLM, and attributing the characteristics of illegal pyramids to MLM.

Just because someone says they're an MLM doesn't mean they are.

I'd suggest another core problem is that you believe recruiting is the raison d'etre of companies that use MLMs. It's not. In legitimate companies, "mutli-level marketing" is simply a marketing strategy for increasing product sales, and thus revenue. It is not a necessity for achieving revenue. Contrast that with BurnLounge, I believe the most recent company taken to court by the FTC as being a pyramid. To profit in BurnLounge you have to recruit people - the money comes from fees paid by new recruits for their websites. The margins on the actual products (downloadable music) is way to small to be able to cover the expenses of generating the sales. The only way for BurnLounge to make money as a company, and the only way for it's reps to make money, is to recruit new reps. It's a classic pyramid scheme using an ostensibly real product as a cover. That's why when the court brings down it's decision in the next month or so, it will declare them a pyramid scheme. It's the same reason YTB Travel got declared a pyramid scheme by California courts.

By contrast, Amway reps get no revenue at all by simply recruiting and Amway itself merely covers costs with it's membership fee - where it even has one (in some countries it doesn't have one). Virtuall all of it's revenues, and all of the revenues of it's agents, are based on product sales, not recruiting.

You're right in saying that "MLMs can not work for everyone", but that applies to every business. It's not possible for everyone to make money selling Amway. It's not possible for everyone to make money selling computers. It's not possible for everyone to make money selling apples. If everyone tried, who would buy?

On the other hand, if there was a chain of a hundred computer stores all trying to profit - can all of them make money? Sure, there's still plenty of potential customers. If there's a network of a hundred amway distributors, can all of them make money? Sure, there's still plenty of potential customers.