American DO and its equivalent British Qualification

[Lisa Simpson]

Never mind all the business about this specific person's registrability as a real doctor in the UK, could an American comment on whether a DO should be allowed to be managing diabetic patients or giving ante-natal advice. Do they have all the general medical education necessary for that or have they just shared some basic science courses with the medics then spent all their clinical training learning about bones and ligaments? An American dentist, DD, wouldn't come over and work as a doctor because they would have a similarly narrowly directed clinical training and I would not think that a DO would be any more competent at general medicine than a dentist.

There's one DO at the family practice we go to. The few times we've seen him, he seemed perfectly competent, didn't try to give any odd or woo advice. He was a doctor.

My sister-in-law also sees a DO at a different practice. Again, there is no difference as far as the type of care she gets from an MD and the DO.

 

[crimresearch]

Never mind all the business about this specific person's registrability as a real doctor in the UK, could an American comment on whether a DO should be allowed to be managing diabetic patients or giving ante-natal advice. Do they have all the general medical education necessary for that or have they just shared some basic science courses with the medics then spent all their clinical training learning about bones and ligaments? An American dentist, DD, wouldn't come over and work as a doctor because they would have a similarly narrowly directed clinical training and I would not think that a DO would be any more competent at general medicine than a dentist.

As repeatedly gone over in this forum, Amerian DOs get full MD training, and a little extra work on nutrition, and other non-pharmaceutical specialties.

How exactly does that make them unfit to practice medicine?

 

[Rolfe]

As repeatedly gone over in this forum, Amerian DOs get full MD training, and a little extra work on nutrition, and other non-pharmaceutical specialties.

How exactly does that make them unfit to practice medicine?

Well, it doesn't. It's just that on this side of the pond we find it difficult to wrap our heads round the concept that anyone with a degree in "osteopathy" can possibly be a real doctor. We require repeated assurances about this fact, and even then we have a sneaking residual doubt that it can possibly be so!

Having said that, the fact that the WHO accepts the DO as a proper medical degree should pretty much shut up the doubts - and I noted that the "DC" degree most definitely does not appear on that page!

Rolfe.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

How exactly does that make them unfit to practice medicine?

I didn't say it did. I was asking whether it did.

I have not seen any previous threads explaining their equivalence to a real medic and thus their non-equivalence to a UK osteopath.

 

[crimresearch]

I wasn't commenting on the British acceptance, BSM said he was questioning, as an American, whether DOs should be managing diabetes or prenatal care.

I'll freely admit to a bias, because the woman who saved my life by ordering the correct blood tests was a DO in family practice...after 4 MDs had tried to kill me by playing mix and match with pills and symptoms.

So I was asking BSM where he was getting his information from.

Looking at the US requirements, over here they are doctors, and then some... I believe there may still be some 90 year old bone manipulators in practice somewhere, but there can't be that many.

ETA links to previous posts on this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1870237754#post1870237754

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1870376588#post1870376588

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1870378341#post1870378341

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[Badly Shaved Monkey]

So I was asking BSM where he was getting his information from.

Without wishing to be tedious about it, BSM wasn't "getting his information from" anywhere, BSM was trying to get information by asking a question.

 

[Rolfe]

I wasn't commenting on the British acceptance, BSM said he was questioning, as an American, whether DOs should be managing diabetes or prenatal care.

BSM may have overlooked this. Am I right in thinking you're assuming that BSM is American? He isn't, he's English. He said,

could an American comment on...?

I was assuming that he asked the question because he had the same mind-boggle as I do about anything with the title "osteopath" being accepted as a "proper doctor".

None of us here has any first-hand knowledge of what a DO in America is or does. All we have experience of here are "osteopaths" who range from the only-mildly-woo-side-of-physiotherapy to fullblown quackery, and who practise in alternative medicine clinics and sports centres. So, asking in effect, are DOs really as well-equipped to handle non-orthopaedic conditions as MDs, is a fairly normal reaction.

Lisa Simpson and Physiotherapist did seem to understand what BSM meant, and answered the question as he asked it. And as I said, the fact that the WHO list of pukka medical qualifications lists the DO as essentially equivalent to the MD for their purposes, does reinforce these messages, unlikely though it seems to the Brits.

Rolfe.

 

[drkitten]

As I said, the fact that the WHO list of pukka medical qualifications lists the DO as essentially equivalent to the MD for their purposes, does reinforce what the Merikans are saying about this, unlikely though it seems to the Brits.

That's all right. Most Merikans consider it unlikely a) that an Oxford MA outranks a Ph.D., b) that you can get an undergraduate degree in Law, and c) that you can gett said Oxford MA just by staying out of jail for three years after you graduate, without further coursework. And every Anglophone I know considers it unlikely (and in point of fact ridiculous) that you can have a German Ph.D. taken away if you don't do further post-doctoral publications....

Different countries, different systems, different universes.

 

[Rolfe]

that an Oxford MA outranks a Ph.D.,

You might get some argument on that one in the Sceptred Isle itself, too....

Rolfe. (PhD, and never will be outranked by godson's measly Oxford 2.2 in Law even when he does upgrade it to an MA by staying out of jail for three years or whatever, assuming he even does as he's gone to Canterbury to train as a schoolteacher....)

 

[drkitten]

You might get some argument on that one in the Sceptred Isle itself, too....

Check the Oxford regs, Rolfe. An MA has precedence over a Ph.D. Among the other things, this implies that a "mere" Oxford MA has the authority to sit on (and vote for) granting a Ph.D., but not the other way around....

I agree, it makes no sense.... but since when has sense trumped tradition in the Sceptered Isle?

 

[crimresearch]

quote:
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could an American comment on...?
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Ahhh..light bulb comes on...

My apologies...I took 'could' as 'May I comment on'.

I might have gotten it had it said 'would an American comment on'.



Sorry.

 

[Rolfe]

Check the Oxford regs, Rolfe. ....

And the reason I care what the Oxford regs have to say about that is...?

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

My apologies...I took 'could' as 'May I comment on'.

I might have gotten it had it said 'would an American comment on'.

Ah, two nations divided by a common language....

Rolfe.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Ah, two nations divided by a common language....

Rolfe.

Hmph. I'm as American as baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet, but I got what BSM was asking for.

 

[Physiotherapist]

Isn't that a waste of a law degree to go train as a teacher? Unless he never wanted to practice law? Well, I suppose no learning is ever wasted.

Sorry folks, did not mean to cause a battle here and yes, I did understand what BSM was asking. I suppose I should have remembered myself really, as I lived in the States for about three years some 20 years ago now. Those were in the days when I was foot loose and fancy free. Being tied down does not allow for travel in the quite the same way as it once used to.

It was great whilst it lasted though and I ended up taking some physical therapy courses and taking in the sights. I went to New Mexico, Maine, Vermont, Boston and other places.

Could I possibly hold the position of honorary American having lived there for three years?

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
could an American comment on...?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahhh..light bulb comes on...

My apologies...I took 'could' as 'May I comment on'.

I might have gotten it had it said 'would an American comment on'.



Sorry.

Accepted.

 

[Rolfe]

Isn't that a waste of a law degree to go train as a teacher? Unless he never wanted to practice law?

Don't. Get. Me. Started.

Rolfe.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Role reversal.

I understand (and will soon be corrected if wrong), that a Doctor of Homoeopathy in the UK is a trained GP who has gone on to acquire qualifications in Hom.

(If so, this would be analogous (qualification wise) to the situation with the American DO. )

So would a UK Doc Hom be able to work in America?

Edit- Physiotherapist. In my opinion the only waste of a law degree would be to actually become a lawyer. We need more teachers. We have more than enough lawyers.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Edit- Physiotherapist. In my opinion the only waste of a law degree would be to actually become a lawyer. We need more teachers. We have more than enough lawyers.

Hey! I get to use my joke again-

"They now use lawyers instead of rats in laboratories. The technicians don't get so attached to them and there are some things even a rat won't do."

 

[Physiotherapist]

Sam,

Yes, a British doctor trained in homeopathy would be able to work in the US. Remember, that they went through Med School here for 5 years and then had to do house office and senior house office jobs. They add on the homeopathy after that (though goodness knows why!!)

I have a feeling that a doctor wanting to work in the US has to sit the State licencing exams too, so that they can get a medical licence to work in the particular State that they wish to work in. They also have to become Board certified in their particular practice area, be that Internal Medicine or Family Practice or whatever.