America vs. The Narrative

Praktik said:
And I guess I'm arguing that tracking and killing terrorists will be enhanced by a greater sensitivity to the muslim street. Its all about humint at the end of the day, isn't it?

Otherwise where do we tell the Predator to go?

And in pursuing this aim, winning the war on terror, is it not wise to be cognizant of the drivers towards recruitment? After all, it will be won when young muslims can be convinced not to join the jihadist movement. Often, I think these concerns are caricatured as saying implicitly: "oh well you dont want america to do anything violent in the middle east and for it to become isolationist". You can't obviously remove every driver to the cause. But if you take care with the application of violence, and work towards developing strategies to minimize irritants to muslim society in the ME, then you can maybe get to the point where the jihadist movement is much more insignificant than it is today.

And thats when victory can be declared.
Click to expand...
The young jihadists flock to a group that kills people for listening to music, watching television, or for shaving. Women can be beaten half to death or killed for daring to be in public without a male relative escorting them.

Somehow, I don't think a deep concern for human rights is their primary motivation.

eta: IOW, I don't believe their excuses for their actual motivations.
 
Last edited:
JihadJane said:
Why do you ask?
Click to expand...
Just trying to confirm if you are defining "fairy tale narrative" in a way rational people define "established fact".

By your avoidance of answering I take it you are, yes?
 
No, I just don't like people who want their country to wage war and kill and displace millions "just because they can."
 
Peephole said:
No, I just don't like people who want their country to wage war and kill and displace millions "just because they can."
Click to expand...
Does it surprise you to find a negative reaction to your inherent dishonesty?

He's a bloody journalist. He's had the good luck to get some of his books published, and for the time being is the flavor of the month/year/decade in some circles. The reaction to his work is mixed.

BFD.

@ Jihad Jane: your bias is noted, and I'll stop with the questions on whether or not you've read Mead. I don't honestly know what was behind Mead's blurb. This thread is about Friedman, not Mead, and the various reactions to Friedman's shallow prose.

DR
 
Last edited:
WildCat said:
Just trying to confirm if you are defining "fairy tale narrative" in a way rational people define "established fact".

By your avoidance of answering I take it you are, yes?
Click to expand...

That's a lovely conversation you're having with yourself, then. Start a new thread if you want to continue it.

Pardalis politely declined my request for his opinion and there aren't many potential Friedman supporters on this thread to ask so I'll ask you. Do you think it' would be reasonable to describe Friedman as America's most important journalist? If so, what qualities would earn him this glowing title?


WildCat said:
And who does that?
Click to expand...

According to Friedman, the US.


Darth Rotor said:
@ Jihad Jane: your bias is noted, and I'll stop with the questions on whether or not you've read Mead.
Click to expand...

Can you be more explicit about what you perceive my "bias" to be?

Perhaps you'd like to share I don't honestly know what was behind Mead's blurb. This thread is about Friedman, not Mead, and the various reactions to Friedman's shallow prose.
Click to expand...

Threads are what posters make of them. I'd like this thread is to be about Friedman, the "Narrative" he claims to see and his own bizarre narrative of US America as a Global Charity organization for Muslims. The two narratives mindsets appear quite similar to me. Mead's words suggest that Friedman isn't alone in his cartoon reality.
 
Last edited:
You know I'm beginning to think the Afghans are just ungrateful as a character trait. According to this Russo-Canadian who was involved in the Soviet operations there in the 80s:

I identified with the Canadian soldiers at the funeral mourning the loss of their friend. Like them, I went to Afghanistan believing in "fighting terrorism" and "liberating Afghans." During my first mission, we were protecting refugees escaping an area that was under attack by the mujahedeen. I was deeply affected by their misery, and by the poverty and suffering of the Afghan people in general. In my mind, our presence was "helping Afghans," particularly with educating women and children. My combat unit participated in "humanitarian aid" - accompanying doctors and delivering food, fuel, clothing, school and other supplies to Afghan villages.​
OBL and company sure weren't grateful to Soviet efforts to help Afghan society, so why did we expect anything different when we went there to accomplish the same?
 
JihadJane said:
That's a lovely conversation you're having with yourself, then. Start a new thread if you want to continue it.
Click to expand...
You see Jane, given your track record here and your belief that 9/11 was perpetrated by the US government, that al Qaeda doesn't exist, that Osama bin Laden is an actor employed by the CIA, and all kinds of other lunatic fringe beliefs my first reaction to anything you claim is to doubt it.

And it's quite amusing to see Peephole chime in and claim a journalist has killed millions of people, and then Praktik jump in to claim that the people who blow up crowded markets with truck bombs killing hundreds of innocents at a pop on purpose are doing so out of their deep concern for human rights.

Pardalis politely declined my request for his opinion and there aren't many potential Friedman supporters on this thread to ask so I'll ask you. Do you think it' would be reasonable to describe Friedman as America's most important journalist? If so, what qualities would earn him this glowing title?
Click to expand...
May as well ask what Rice-a-Roni did to deserve the title of "The San Francisco Treat". It's a blurb on a book jacket, not something he earned in a ceromony at the White House and encoded into law.

According to Friedman, the US.
Click to expand...
Can you quote where he said it, or is this what you gleaned using the same "common sense" that leads you to believe that WTC 7 was brought down by nano-therm*te/bombs/space beams/mini-nukes?

Threads are what posters make of them. I'd like this thread is to be about Friedman, the "Narrative" he claims to see and his own bizarre narrative of US America as a Global Charity organization for Muslims. The two narratives mindsets appear quite similar to me. Mead's words suggest that Friedman isn't alone in his cartoon reality.
Click to expand...
Where does Friedman claim that the US is a "Global Charity organization for Muslims"? Is this more truther paraphrasing, kind of like how you paraphrase Larry Silverstein saying "maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it" to mean "we decided to blow up the building"?
 
Last edited:
Praktik said:
You know I'm beginning to think the Afghans are just ungrateful as a character trait. According to this Russo-Canadian who was involved in the Soviet operations there in the 80s:

I identified with the Canadian soldiers at the funeral mourning the loss of their friend. Like them, I went to Afghanistan believing in "fighting terrorism" and "liberating Afghans." During my first mission, we were protecting refugees escaping an area that was under attack by the mujahedeen. I was deeply affected by their misery, and by the poverty and suffering of the Afghan people in general. In my mind, our presence was "helping Afghans," particularly with educating women and children. My combat unit participated in "humanitarian aid" - accompanying doctors and delivering food, fuel, clothing, school and other supplies to Afghan villages.​
OBL and company sure weren't grateful to Soviet efforts to help Afghan society, so why did we expect anything different when we went there to accomplish the same?
Click to expand...

THe US is no better then the Soviet Union. Classic left wing Moral Equivlency.
 
dudalb said:
THe US is no better then the Soviet Union. Classic left wing Moral Equivlency.
Click to expand...

Nope. More like "the universality of war propaganda".

You're the one drawing the inference that I was suggesting they were equivalent. I did no such thing and I don't think that. I can only think that the "classic right wing" appeal above was an emotional reaction to the fact that in many ways, the Soviets saw their own "intervention" in a similar light. hard to grok I know..:)
 
Last edited:
Praktik said:
Nope. More like "the universality of war propaganda".

You're the one drawing the inference that I was suggesting they were equivalent. I did no such thing and I don't think that. I can only think that the "classic right wing" appeal above was an emotional reaction to the fact that in many ways, the Soviets saw their own "intervention" in a similar light. hard to grok I know..:)
Click to expand...


Look, I support the US being in Afghanistan for one reason:To be sure that the Taliban does not get back in power and allow Al Qaida a safe haven to build bases from which to launch new attacks on the US. I have no illusions about remaking Afghanistani society . That might be a selfish attitude, but then I proudly admit to being Selfish.
A lot of the left were "Useful Idiots' during the Cold War, they continue to be so with the only difference instead of being Useful to the Soviets they are being Useful to Islamic Extremists.
 
dudalb said:
Look, I support the US being in Afghanistan for one reason:To be sure that the Taliban does not get back in power and allow Al Qaida a safe haven to build bases from which to launch new attacks on the US. I have no illusions about remaking Afghanistani society . That might be a selfish attitude, but then I proudly admit to being Selfish.
A lot of the left were "Useful Idiots' during the Cold War, they continue to be so with the only difference instead of being Useful to the Soviets they are being Useful to Islamic Extremists.
Click to expand...

beware the fifth column! ;) An american tradition if there ever was one...

I guess from MY perspective, I see George W bush and the prosecution of the War on Terror from 2001 to present as being very "useful" to terrorists - so from where I'm sitting the useful idiots are on the right. OBL is winning the war so far in my opinion. I'm not sure how much of a strategic thinker he is but even if it wasn't his aim to draw America in and tie it down that's how it worked out - to the glee of him and other recruiters... What's the greatest gift Osama ever got? Dick Cheney.

But this is besides the point after all this is a thread about Friedman. Clearly you had a specific aim: the destruction of the Taliban and a safe harbor for Al Qaeda. Thats totally fine I appreciate you being straight up.

You don't gloss this over with a national myth of "generosity" and that's to be commended.
 
Last edited:
Darth Rotor said:
Does it surprise you to find a negative reaction to your inherent dishonesty?

He's a bloody journalist.
Click to expand...
Yes, and I think he has a moral responsibility for all the horrible things he advocates.

Besides being a terrible writer and an idiot in general.
 
Peephole said:
Yes, and I think he has a moral responsibility for all the horrible things he advocates.

Besides being a terrible writer and an idiot in general.
Click to expand...
What horrible thing did he advocate?

And will you be supporting your claim that Freidman "killed millions" of people?

Too funny!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom