"Amazing Growing Person"

[Steven Howard]

In regard to this claim:

Is his claim that the "Mystery Vortex" makes people appear taller than they are in a still photograph, but doesn't actually change their height?

 

[Moose]

I think so.

It looks like he's trying to force the deck by claiming that a known perspective illusion is paranormal based on a faulty assumption: that cameras don't record perspective illusions. This is, of course, total bullhockey.

 

[wahrheit]

I read the protocol three times, and I have to admit I didn't get the point, I had trouble reading and understanding it. Why is it that these people make things so complicated and hard to understand all the time?

What is this guy trying to prove, is it "come to that funky Vortex place and watch the laws of physics go belly up", or not? If there was going on something really weird, well, paranormal, why does it need such strange regulations etc., why not simply go there and see it happen. I just don't get it what goes on in these people's minds.

 

[Winny]

It seemed to me that he is trying to get JREF to prove that it's not paranormal by repeating the effect elsewhere.

Or am I misunderstanding completely?

Winny

edit for spalling

 

[melba]

No, I think he is trying to say that, sure you can replicate this elsewhere through trickery, but we are to assume that the performance during the test is magical, unless proven otherwise.

It might be useful if someone would want to compare the proposed protocol with James Randi's debunking of the effect http://www.randi.org/jr/101003.html

 

[webfusion]

far-out, baby, ohhhh, yeah

I wanna see Nelson do a real growing taller demonstration --
with Mini Me.

 

[Hitch]

I seem to recall a few years ago a guy in New Zealand made some films demonstrating this effect. Some of you might have seen them.

His name was Peter Jackson and he called the films The Lord of the Rings.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Thought I'd bump due to the update

The determining evidence of whether or not people got smaller and larger will be found solely in the photos made by the camera that has been set up.

Scam.

Part of Rule 2, "We have no interest in theories or explanations of how the claimed powers might work ." Measuring subjects on the platform AND on the photos will demonstrate a paradox that may demand a theory or explanation for which JREF says it has no interest.

Just pointing out semantic wiggling.

 

[jmercer]

I agree - not much to see here, folks, move along.

 

[KRAMER]

Things have gotten rather contentious with this applicant. See the Challenge thread.

Maybe I ought to have rejected it straight away. I dunno. I think I'm really in some kind of "Give everybody a chance" low gear.

Back to high gear, me thinks. I won't let this guy waste too much more of our time.
This is NOT a paranormal claim.

Anyone disagree?

 

[Hastur]

Let's allow him to make enough rope to hang himself, Kramer. Let's see his revised protocol and make every opportunity to ensure we can reject his claim rather safely. Who knows, maybe he will surprise us with something extraordinary. I'd rather have more than Achau in the starting gate for this year's derby.

 

[Vikram]

Things have gotten rather contentious with this applicant. See the Challenge thread.

Maybe I ought to have rejected it straight away. I dunno. I think I'm really in some kind of "Give everybody a chance" low gear.

Back to high gear, me thinks. I won't let this guy waste too much more of our time.
This is NOT a paranormal claim.

Anyone disagree?

I agree with what Hastur says. Btw, Kramer, I thought your last response to Mr. Nelson was deliciously professional. Good job!

Mr. Nelson has a claim that's patently non-paranormal, as I'm sure he's aware as well.

IMO, the best way to deal with him would be to suggest (with exquisite politeness) modifications to his protocol that would prevent him from achieving a photographic illusion. After all, since he says that this isn't an illusion, modifications that eliminate that as a possibility surely should not affect the testing of his claim one bit.

Your handling him calmly but firmly would hopefully result in him giving up his attempt to hoodwink the JREF.

 

[69dodge]

If he agrees to have the participants stand next to rods with calibrated marks, and to throw out any pair of photos in which a participant's height as measured by those rods changes between the two photos, why does he need people at all in the photos? Just take a single photo of the two rods and compare the lengths of their images in the photo.

How big of an effect is this supposed to be? 20% difference in height? 5%? 1%? You need to know beforehand, so you can position everything with appropriate accuracy and so you can decide if he passes the test.

Is the effect consistent? That is, will, for example, the left rod always produce a larger image than the right one? What if you then move the camera behind the platform and turn the camera around to face it again, so that what was the left rod is now to the right of the camera and vice versa? Which image is bigger now?

 

[Squidd]

Btw, Kramer, I thought your last response to Mr. Nelson was deliciously professional. Good job!

I agree--perfect response. I particularly like "Thanks For Your Continued Interest." Who would have thought that a polite, innocuous closing remark could be used as the subtlest of digs at an applicant's intentions?

It appears Paul Carey has done us all a great service, though I doubt that's what he had in mind.

 

[BPSCG]

I agree with what Hastur says. Btw, Kramer, I thought your last response to Mr. Nelson was deliciously professional. Good job!

Amen that.

Your handling him calmly but firmly would hopefully result in him giving up his attempt to hoodwink the JREF.

Agree. I've found there's little that can infuriate an irrational person more than courteous and icy professionalism.

 

[Gr8wight]

I still don't even remotely understand this applicant's claim. As Kramer and Randi always ask: what, exactly, is it he is claiming he can do?

 

[Hitch]

I still don't even remotely understand this applicant's claim. As Kramer and Randi always ask: what, exactly, is it he is claiming he can do?

He can take a picture that looks exactly like an optical illusion, but it's not, because in this one location the effect is real. If the JREF can't prove that it's not really happening (and simply recreating the effect with camera trickery is no proof) they have to pay him the $1 million.

I can't believe they're wasting time with this.

 

[ma1ic3]

Re: far-out, baby, ohhhh, yeah

I wanna see Nelson do a real growing taller demonstration --
with Mini Me.

Good idea!

Now we just need to find someone that wants to feel a "real growing taller demonstration with Mini Me", and we'll be set.

 

[jmercer]

He can take a picture that looks exactly like an optical illusion, but it's not, because in this one location the effect is real. If the JREF can't prove that it's not really happening (and simply recreating the effect with camera trickery is no proof) they have to pay him the $1 million.

I can't believe they're wasting time with this.

If that's the case, who needs a camera? Just measure the people in a "normal" area, then measure them again in the "special zone". The pictures are irrelevant, no?

 

[Hitch]

If that's the case, who needs a camera? Just measure the people in a "normal" area, then measure them again in the "special zone". The pictures are irrelevant, no?

I believe the "special zone" makes everything -- not just people -- grow and shink. So the ruler -- or whatever you're measuring with -- would grow or shink and make the person seem to be the same height.

Ooh... it's all very subtle.