Allopathic Medicine!!!

[Norman Alexander]

This is not strictly accurate. Hahnemann lived and died before modern medicine existed. In a way, at the time, homeopathy was better than the "allopathic" medicine at the time (which was pretty awful), because at least it didn't have side effects.

In fact, Hahnemann was a proponent of rigorous testing of potions and remedies, much along the lines of the double-blind style gold-standard today. His method, "proving", was to test them on a live subject (usually himself) and note the effects honestly.

Unfortunately he started with a massive dose of full-strength cinchona powder (aka quinine), which had some predictably serious side-effects as a result (some people are allergic to quinine, and Hahnemann described his symptoms as being very much like that reaction).

It was this event that prompted him to consider diluting the doses of remedies in a controlled fashion, leading to the development of his "scientific" dilution method for his own safety. From the highly diluted doses he then recorded his symptoms faithfully, which he called "proving". His limitation was he had no understanding of molecular science, and thus the notion he was diluting remedies out of existence. But to be fair, neither did a lot of other scientists at the time - chemistry as we know it today was only in its infancy.

So he started well-meaning and ahead of his time, but rapidly headed off down a non-scientific path. Within a few decades, scientists had the basics of molar chemistry, and realised Hahnemann was just fooling himself. The very first debunking of homeopathy was in the early 1800's, but by that time Hahnemann was a cranky old codger hawking his notions across Europe and was having no truck with this "new science". It was at this time he coined the word "allopathy" as an insult. He failed to understand what he was denigrating then, and things have gotten worse since.

 

[Caroline13]

Quite true in fact.
Naturopathy is nearly as silly ( Vis, a non-drowsy sleep remedy ) but potentially more dangerous as there are active ingredients, that can be prescribed by any uneducated practitioner.

You can all take your prescribed Ambien drugs, cook at night, go outside and walk around and whatever else that class of sleep drugs do.

I'll take my Calms Forte' and get a wonderful dreamy restorative sleep every night.

 

[Finster]

Does that claim to be homoeopathic? This looks like a list of potentially active ingredients - https://gohealthy.co.nz/products/sleep-nervous-system/sleep-support/

That’s another problem with homeopathic crap, at least in the U.S., the lack of regulation leads to things being labeled homeopathic that are not and that do have active ingredients. And in the case of something like Zicam, not just active, actively dangerous.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You can all take your prescribed Ambien drugs, cook at night, go outside and walk around and whatever else that class of sleep drugs do.

I'll take my Calms Forte' and get a wonderful dreamy restorative sleep every night.

You appreciate, I presume, that most people just go to bed and go to sleep and don't take any tablets, prescription or otherwise, to make it happen.

 

[Caroline13]

That’s another problem with homeopathic crap, at least in the U.S., the lack of regulation leads to things being labeled homeopathic that are not and that do have active ingredients. And in the case of something like Zicam, not just active, actively dangerous.

How many have died from homeopathics? Can you tell me. And Zicam, wonder how many issues from this drug. I have no clue what it's used for is it for asthma? I'll have to look it up. If one has a great trust in Big Pharma go for them, they need your business.

Zucam lawsuits:

https://www.phillipslaw.com/zicam

This article says it's essentially homeopathic that is hard to grasp. It does contain zinc and take daily zinc and especially during this covid mess.

Zicam is also classified as a homeopathic product, which means that it is technically not sold as a medication like many that require a prescription. While this may seem like a small difference, this classification means that Zicam did not need to go through the formal approval process thats required by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for many medications. Therefore, no formal studies or statistics were offered to the FDA for approval prior to Zicam hitting the market.


If I ever get a cold and I have NOT had one in 30-40 yrs, thanks to my herbals, and grape seed extract, I'd look at Zicam. There are also homeopathic cold remedies on the market and I have some here at home for just in case.

 

[Caroline13]

You appreciate, I presume, that most people just go to bed and go to sleep and don't take any tablets, prescription or otherwise, to make it happen.

Oh I'm on other groups and many have plenty of people who have Sleep Issues, and the older one gets the more issues.And then there is the Insomnia world.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Does that claim to be homoeopathic? This looks like a list of potentially active ingredients - https://gohealthy.co.nz/products/sleep-nervous-system/sleep-support/

There doesn't seem to be anything homeopathic in that. But that is another problem of "homeopathy": In many countries, including the US, homeopathic remedies are more or less given a free pass by authorities. Homeopaths like to cite that as an approval, but it is really based on the assumption that it is harmless.

However, this means that a lot of various snake-oil is being marketed as "homeopathic" do keep it under the radar of authorities.

Hans

 

[bruto]

How many have died from homeopathics? Can you tell me. And Zicam, wonder how many issues from this drug. I have no clue what it's used for is it for asthma? I'll have to look it up. If one has a great trust in Big Pharma go for them, they need your business.

Zucam lawsuits:

https://www.phillipslaw.com/zicam

This article says it's essentially homeopathic that is hard to grasp. It does contain zinc and take daily zinc and especially during this covid mess.

Zicam is also classified as a homeopathic product, which means that it is technically not sold as a medication like many that require a prescription. While this may seem like a small difference, this classification means that Zicam did not need to go through the formal approval process thats required by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for many medications. Therefore, no formal studies or statistics were offered to the FDA for approval prior to Zicam hitting the market.


If I ever get a cold and I have NOT had one in 30-40 yrs, thanks to my herbals, and grape seed extract, I'd look at Zicam. There are also homeopathic cold remedies on the market and I have some here at home for just in case.

This is a misleadingly meaningless question. I would be surprised if anyone has died from the actual effects of homeopathic medications, since they are essentially nothing at all. Similarly you can also say nobody has died from the actual effects of praying to saint Dymphna or hanging garlic around their neck.

The question, of course, is not whether the medications have caused harm or death, but whether trust in them has. This you cannot evaluate easily, but it's a very very different question.

 

[Pixel42]

Homeopathic remedies have no side effects because they have no effects at all. They are harmless because they are just sugar pills.

Even your much vaunted grape seed extract has side effects, because it does actually have some effects.

 

[arthwollipot]

How many have died from homeopathics?

Four hundred and thirty seven. Most of them because homeopaths told them to stop taking their medication, or because they chose to take homeopathy instead of medicine.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

This article says it's essentially homeopathic that is hard to grasp.

You dilute the active ingredient the way homeopaths do. Bingo you made a homeopathic drug. You win an exemption from a whole bunch of tests and regulations that are supposed to protect people from unsafe drugs.

The difference between this stuff and most homeopathic pills is that its ingredients are only diluted a bit, so they are still there in the product in significant quantities. Usually these things are diluted and diluted until they're just plain water then diluted some more and diluted again and again and eventually one drop of plain water is dripped on some sugar pills and hey presto.

 

[The Greater Fool]

Oh I'm on other groups and many have plenty of people who have Sleep Issues, and the older one gets the more issues.And then there is the Insomnia world.

Calms Forte:

Active Ingredients | Purposes:
Avena Sativa 4X HPUS: stress, nervousness
Calcarea Phosphorica 3X HPUS: restlessness
Chamomilla 4X HPUS: nervous irritability
Ferrum Phosphoricum 3X HPUS: nervousness
Humulus Lupulus 4X HPUS: occasional sleeplessness
Kali Phosphoricum 3X HPUS: irritability
Magnesia Phosphorica 3X HPUS: mental anxiousness
Natrum Phosphoricum 3X HPUS: anxiousness
Passiflora 4X HPUS: restless sleep from exhaustion

At 3X/4X it seems possible one might get a molecule or two of active ingredient. Compared to water it's pretty much water.

Directions:
Adults & children 12 years and over: As a relaxant: swallow 1-2 tablets with water as needed three times daily. For occasional sleeplessness: 1-3 tablets 1/2 to 1 hour before retiring.

The average person takes about 30 minutes to get to sleep. Again, Calms Forte compares favorably to water. With or without Calms Forte it will take about the same time to get to sleep.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Four hundred and thirty seven. Most of them because homeopaths told them to stop taking their medication, or because they chose to take homeopathy instead of medicine.

To be fair, they didn't all die due to taking homeopathy instead of medicine, some of them just suffered organ failure or brain damage or stuff like that.

 

[Mojo]

In fact, Hahnemann was a proponent of rigorous testing of potions and remedies, much along the lines of the double-blind style gold-standard today. His method, "proving", was to test them on a live subject (usually himself) and note the effects honestly.

Unfortunately he started with a massive dose of full-strength cinchona powder (aka quinine), which had some predictably serious side-effects as a result (some people are allergic to quinine, and Hahnemann described his symptoms as being very much like that reaction).

It was this event that prompted him to consider diluting the doses of remedies in a controlled fashion, leading to the development of his "scientific" dilution method for his own safety. From the highly diluted doses he then recorded his symptoms faithfully, which he called "proving”.

The event with the cinchona bark was what led him to “like cures like”, as he thought the symptoms he experienced were like those of malaria, and therefore cinchona bark cured malaria because it caused similar symptoms (the prevailing medical theory was that it cured malaria because it was bitter, by the way. Hahnemann rejected this because other bitter things didn’t cure malaria). He didn’t start using the dilutions until much later, and it was at that point that he decided that the “provings” should also be carried out using the diluted remedies.

 

[arthwollipot]

To be fair, they didn't all die due to taking homeopathy instead of medicine, some of them just suffered organ failure or brain damage or stuff like that.

Yes, this is true. But it is not true that homeopathy is without harm.

 

[Darat]

New Version Of 'Operation' Just Has Players Use Essential Oils Instead Of Performing A Medical Procedure

PAWTUCKET, RI—In a press release Friday, Hasbro announced a new version of classic board game Operation in which players use essential oils to treat serious medical conditions rather than taking the patient, Cavity Sam, into a hospital for expensive, invasive surgery.

Much like the typical version, players draw a card to see which ailment they are supposed to cure on their turn and how much money they'll earn for a success. However, instead of using tweezers to remove potentially deadly growths all throughout Sam's body, players will need to apply the correct oil. If they put the wrong oil into the board, blend the concoction improperly, or miss their target, the board will buzz, indicating the player has failed.

"For instance, if the patient has a collapsed lung, conventional Operation wisdom would be to operate," said a Hasbro rep demoing the game in a video on YouTube. "But this is just propaganda from Big Pharma. All that collapsed lung needs is a little frankincense, and Cavity Sam is good to go." The demonstrator then showed how lavender could cure the patient's sore throat, lemongrass his gout, and cassia a serious cardiac event like a heart attack.

"We're finally pushing back against the big-dollar medical industry," she said before attempting to cure Sam's obesity with a "Slim N' Sassy" blend. "Oops! I accidentally dropped the oil into his heart attack slot. Now he's dead."

The game already has two expansions announced: Essential Oil Starter Pack 1, which contains over 50 new oils for kids to experiment with, and Oil Baron, which tasks players with hiring their friends and family to work for their new work-from-home essential oil empire.​

Classic sketch

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This is a misleadingly meaningless question. I would be surprised if anyone has died from the actual effects of homeopathic medications, since they are essentially nothing at all. Similarly you can also say nobody has died from the actual effects of praying to saint Dymphna or hanging garlic around their neck.

The question, of course, is not whether the medications have caused harm or death, but whether trust in them has. This you cannot evaluate easily, but it's a very very different question.

Speaking of Zicam, I was looking for the zinc product that works, gluconate or acetate, I forget what the version actually studied is. So I come across the Zicam at Walgreen's pharmacy and the label doesn't say what zinc is actually in it, then I notice it says homeopathic medicine. So I went to the pharmacist and asked him what was in it. He didn't know. I pointed out it was homeopathy and a fraud if it was being sold as a zinc formula.

I don't think they bothered to take it off the shelf. This was years ago and I didn't follow up. Next time I'm in there I'll look.

 

[arthwollipot]

Chemists in Australia all routinely carry homeopathy, as well as the full range from Big Supp.

 

[Mojo]

Speaking of Zicam, I was looking for the zinc product that works, gluconate or acetate, I forget what the version actually studied is. So I come across the Zicam at Walgreen's pharmacy and the label doesn't say what zinc is actually in it, then I notice it says homeopathic medicine. So I went to the pharmacist and asked him what was in it. He didn't know. I pointed out it was homeopathy and a fraud if it was being sold as a zinc formula.

According to this the zinc compounds are at 1X and 2X, so there will be zinc present.

 

[Caroline13]

There doesn't seem to be anything homeopathic in that. But that is another problem of "homeopathy": In many countries, including the US, homeopathic remedies are more or less given a free pass by authorities. Homeopaths like to cite that as an approval, but it is really based on the assumption that it is harmless.

However, this means that a lot of various snake-oil is being marketed as "homeopathic" do keep it under the radar of authorities.

Hans

Homeopathy is harmless and if those who use it believe it's helping then -- Why Not? Much of the world uses it.