Merged All things Trump + Russia

[Belz...]

I'm entirely surprised by the conservative/Republican spinelessness and covering for this. The election showed me I gave them entirely too much credit in the first place. They will not act on even clear information.

Well, just look at their cheerleaders in this thread alone. If this stuff doesn't make them budge nothing can. And yet we're told that they don't support Trump at all. Hah!

 

[tyr_13]

I believe the Russians were just too subtle for the Trump crew: the lawyer knew she couldn't just offer aid in form of FSB research without landing the campaign in deep trouble. Hence the "lobbying against sanctions" Gambit, and also as a way to test how Moscow-friendly the administration would likely be.
Veselnitskaya was already on thin ice, legally: if anyone at Trump Tower had called the FBI, she would have been in massive trouble if caught with Russian intel on Clinton, and it would have reflected badly on Putin.
But plausible deniability doesn't really matter for the Trump clan, so they probably didn't understand why she didn't just drop of a bag of rubles and a Clinton sex-tape.

I've been trying to figure out how to film a comedy sketch on just his premise. The Russians trying their best mafia-speech innuendo while the Trump team don't get it over and over again.

It's also horrendously plausible.

 

[Stacko]

Akhmetshin has been previously accused of coordinating hacking.

In court papers filed with New York Supreme Court in November 2015, Akhmetshin was described as “a former Soviet military counterintelligence officer” by lawyers for International Mineral Resources (IMR), a Russian mining company who alleged that they had been hacked.

Those documents accuse Akhmetshin of hacking into two computer systems and stolen sensitive and confidential materials as part of an alleged black ops smear campaign against IMR. The allegations were later withdrawn.

The U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C. was told in July 2015 that Akhmetshin had arranged the hacking of a mining company’s private records—stealing internal documents and then disseminating them. The corporate espionage case was brought by IMR, who alleged that Akhmetshin was hired by Russian oligarch Andrey Melinchenko, an industrialist worth around $12 billion

A New York law firm paid Akhmetshin $140,000, including expenses, to organize a public relations campaign targeting IMR. Shortly after he began that work, IMR suffered a sophisticated and systematic breach of its computers, and gigabytes of data allegedly stolen in the breach wound up the hands of journalists and human rights groups critical of the mining company. IMR accused Akhmetshin of paying Russian hackers to carry out the hack attack.

IMR went so far as to hire a private investigator to follow Akhmetshin on a trip to London. That private eye, Akis Phanartzis, wrote in a sworn declaration to the court that he eavesdropped on Akhmetshin in a London coffee shop and heard Akhmetshin boast that "he organized the hacking of IMR's computer systems" on behalf of Melinchenko’s fertilizer producer Eurochem. "Mr. Akhmetshin [noted] that he was hired because there were certain things that the law firm could not do," Phanartzis said.

 

[tyr_13]

Well, just look at their cheerleaders in this thread alone. If this stuff doesn't make them budge nothing can. And yet we're told that they don't support Trump at all. Hah!

Opps, I meant unsurprised.

However, many might not honestly realize that they support Trump. They think they're just sticking it to the 'greater threat' of those 'liberals' (as if liberals were the only people opposed to Trump), and not for what Trump's for. But that's actually all there is to being a Trump supporter for the most part, so they actually are.

 

[The_Animus]

I've been trying to figure out how to film a comedy sketch on just his premise. The Russians trying their best mafia-speech innuendo while the Trump team don't get it over and over again.

It's also horrendously plausible.

Sounds similar to the scene in Wolf of Wall Street where DiCaprio meets with a Swiss bank president about whether he can hide his I'll gotten money from the FBI/SEC by moving it to Sweden. Bank president is trying to be discrete about it but DiCaprio isn't sure exactly what he is saying so he asked about it more directly.

 

[Garrison]

The defence of trump junior has basically become 'he would have colluded with a foreigner to affect the outcome of the election but the foreigner didn't have the info he wanted'. Like trying to argue you weren't trying to buy cocaine because all the dealer really had was powdered sugar.

 

[Apathia]

Opps, I meant unsurprised.

However, many might not honestly realize that they support Trump. They think they're just sticking it to the 'greater threat' of those 'liberals' (as if liberals were the only people opposed to Trump), and not for what Trump's for. But that's actually all there is to being a Trump supporter for the most part, so they actually are.

This is the way of it with a friend of mine. he didn't vote for Trump. He asserts that Trump is highly incompetent. Yet to him there is no evidence of collusion and the events surrounding Trump junior are nothing. As our conversations on the subject progresses, it always comes back to the "liberal media" ganging up on Trump. he sees it merely as Liberals vs Conservatives and almost takes it personally.

 

[Mumbles]

Yes, and there's no scandal there. It's called politics. Ask Killary.

The above is pure nonsense. I really can't think of a presidential campaign in my lifetime that would accept the help of Putin's government before this.

It's a symbol of how far gone the current GOP is. Don't bother saying that you're "patriotic", you are not. Don't honor the troops, don't claim that you're the "party of Lincoln", you sold all of that out. You are now the party of betrayers.

 

[Childlike Empress]

The above is pure nonsense. I really can't think of a presidential campaign in my lifetime that would accept the help of Putin's government before this.

It's a symbol of how far gone the current GOP is. Don't bother saying that you're "patriotic", you are not. Don't honor the troops, don't claim that you're the "party of Lincoln", you sold all of that out. You are now the party of betrayers.

Birdy, I'm a German voting far left of anything that's offered by the two right wings of the US political bird of prey.

 

[Tero]

This buying dirt (or trading) on Hillary is kind of like a drug deal. You give your money to one guy. Then you go in the alley. The first guy calls the alley guy. You get the drugs from the alley guy and walk away. The drugs guy never holds money.

Substitute "delete sanctions" for money and we have: Trump campaign.

 

[xjx388]

It all hinges on whether or not Jr. taking this meeting in the hopes of getting dirt was in itself illegal. That seems to me to be an open question that does not have a clear answer.

But it does raise important questions. If indeed information counts as a "contribution" and this Russian lawyer did indeed directly represent the Russian government (neither or which has been proven), then sure, i would agree it was illegal. But then, what of the contributions of information that CNN reporters made to Hillary's campaign/the DNC? CNN is a corporation after all and corporations are barred from making contributions to federal campaigns. What about any contribution of information from any source to any campaign? How do you value that in order to see if it exceeds contribution limits? I would think that any opposition research that includes receiving information from people or companies would then have the potential to be an illegal contribution. In that case, most campaigns break the law.

 

[Stacko]

Trump’s “high quality” son and son-in-law let him fight with U.S. intelligence over Russia when they knew the truth.

 

[Belz...]

Trump’s “high quality” son and son-in-law let him fight with U.S. intelligence over Russia when they knew the truth.

As I said before, Trump must have known about that meeting. It's inconceivable to me that he wouldn't beforehand.

 

[Mumbles]

It all hinges on whether or not Jr. taking this meeting in the hopes of getting dirt was in itself illegal. That seems to me to be an open question that does not have a clear answer.

Actually...no. There are times when the law, as written, is unethical and should be opposed, and times when one can wiggle around the law while still being disgusting.

At best, Donkey Don Jr. falls into the latter category. Most likely, his father does as well.

 

[jimbob]

The defence of trump junior has basically become 'he would have colluded with a foreigner to affect the outcome of the election but the foreigner didn't have the info he wanted'. Like trying to argue you weren't trying to buy cocaine because all the dealer really had was powdered sugar.

I think it's more like saying that you were trying to buy cocaine but it didn't matter because the dealer only had powdered sugar, and then you are found subsequently with white powder around your nose and dilated pupils and a sudden excess of confidence

 

[Mumbles]

I think it's more like saying that you were trying to buy cocaine but it didn't matter because the dealer only had powdered sugar, and then you are found subsequently with white powder around your nose and dilated pupils and a sudden excess of confidence

You have to love Toupee Fiasco's claim that most political operatives would have jumped at this chance.

Actually, no, every single political worker I know would have worked to distance themselves from this, would have gone straight to the FBI. These emails are the sort of thing you'd see in a cartoon - and yet, this admin still fell for it.

ETA: I especially love the idea of a "crown prosecutor". There's no crown!

 

[C_Felix]

As I said before, Trump must have known about that meeting. It's inconceivable to me that he wouldn't beforehand.

And when you throw in the time-line, it backs up the idea what Mr. Trump Sr knew about the meeting.

 

[Elagabalus]

Gilding one's gold is the most ostentatious display I've heard of.

I know! And then they slather it all over their Object dArts!!*






* bringin' it back from the grave

 

[jimbob]

You have to love Toupee Fiasco's claim that most political operatives would have jumped at this chance.

Actually, no, every single political worker I know would have worked to distance themselves from this, would have gone straight to the FBI. These emails are the sort of thing you'd see in a cartoon - and yet, this admin still fell for it.

ETA: I especially love the idea of a "crown prosecutor". There's no crown!

Yes, if the ethics weren't a sufficient disincentive, wouldn't people worry about putting themselves in a compromising position? If I was high up in a political campaign, I'd be concerned about leaving myself wide open to blackmail by them threatening to release details of the meeting. After all, it wouldn't harm Russia nearly as much as it would harm me.

Going to the authorities or going public about this would be the only sensible thing to do at that stage.

 

[Belz...]

And when you throw in the time-line, it backs up the idea what Mr. Trump Sr knew about the meeting.

That's part of why it's inconceivable to me that he didn't, actually.