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Merged All things Trump + Russia

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Skeptic Ginger said:
Nunes and Trump trying to change the subject:

Dispute erupts over House panel subpoenas for CIA, FBI looking for the "unmaskers".

So both Sessions and Nunes now have volunteered faux recusals.


Trump Tweet
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Why do I have this nagging suspicion that even the search for "unmaskers" will end up backfiring on the Trump administration?

Could it be because no matter where they look it is probably going to lead back to even more evidence that Trump people are doing things they actually have good reason not to want other people to find out about? After all, the "unmaskers" have to have had something to unmask in the first place. Any scrutiny of them will lead inexorably to that.

Or maybe it's just that everything they do to try to cover for themselves seems to have a way of backfiring on them.

Mel Brooks would be hard pressed to come up with a script for a more slapstick, doomed administration than this one.
 
logger said:
China and Europe are going to hamstring their economies and we aren't! ;)
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It is the United States that is going to lose out. Even big businesses here in the United States have urged Trump to remain in the Paris accord. Trump thinks he can bring back jobs for the coal industry, which shows that Trump is behind the times. Case in point:

There is no boom in coal jobs

Indeed, not everyone in the Trump administration is gung-ho about coal. President Trump's chief economist, Gary Cohn, has publicly questioned coal's future.

"Coal doesn't even make that much sense anymore," Cohn told reporters traveling with the president on his recent trip overseas. He added that natural gas is not only cheaper but it is cleaner.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/31/news/economy/trump-coal-jobs/


Trump promised to bring back coal jobs. That promise ‘will not be kept,’
experts say.

With coal miners gathered around him, Trump signed an executive order rolling back a temporary ban on mining coal and a stream protection rule imposed by the Obama administration. The order follows the president’s campaign promise to revive the struggling coal industry and bring back thousands of lost mining jobs in rural America.

“I made them this promise,” Trump said, “we will put our miners back to work.”

But industry experts say coal mining jobs will continue to be lost, not because of blocked access to coal, but because power plant owners are turning to natural gas. At least six plants that relied on coal have closed or announced they will close since Trump’s victory in November, including the main plant at the Navajo Generating Station in Arizona, the largest in the West. Another 40 are projected to close during the president’s four-year term.
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So once again, Trump has misled his supporters and Russia is clapping its hands in joy because Trump has further divided the US from its allies.
 
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skyeagle409 said:
It is the United States that is going to lose out. Even big businesses here in the United States have urged Trump to remain in the Paris accord. Trump thinks he can bring back jobs for the coal industry, which shows that Trump is behind the times. Case in point:




So once again, Trump has misled his supporters.
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Probably the only way Trump can save coal is if he bans fracking.
 
logger said:
I suppose you don't drive a car? If you are, doesn't this make you a polluter?

If these polluters are your enemy, why aren't you bike riding?
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Thanks to certain measures undertaken in California over the decades, we now have clear skies and I can remember when the sky over Los Angeles was brown and the surrounding mountains were invisible from the city. That is how filthy the air was and yet, Trump want's to bring back flawed policies that once again will pollute our air if allowed to take effect, but I don't think that will happen because I expect the next president to be intelligent enough to overturn Trump's short-sighted logic and place the US back into the Paris accord. The majority of Americans wanted the US to remain with the Paris accord.

Most Americans Support Staying in the Paris Agreement

Seven out of 10 Americans support remaining in the agreement, according to a national poll conducted by the Yale Program on Climate Communication after the election. This cuts across parties: A majority of self-identified Democrats, Republicans, and independents all want to stay in the accord.

Slightly less than half of self-identified Trump voters also want to remain in the accord, according to the Yale poll. Another quarter opposes staying in the treaty, and the remainder say they don’t have an opinion about it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science...upport-staying-in-the-paris-agreement/528663/
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Trump is a president who is out of touch with the wishes of the American people and the world.
 
quadraginta said:
Why do I have this nagging suspicion that even the search for "unmaskers" will end up backfiring on the Trump administration?

Could it be because no matter where they look it is probably going to lead back to even more evidence that Trump people are doing things they actually have good reason not to want other people to find out about? After all, the "unmaskers" have to have had something to unmask in the first place. Any scrutiny of them will lead inexorably to that.

Or maybe it's just that everything they do to try to cover for themselves seems to have a way of backfiring on them.

Mel Brooks would be hard pressed to come up with a script for a more slapstick, doomed administration than this one.
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They want to blame Obama, claim he illegally spied on the Trump campaign as if that will keep them from looking guilty as hell when the dust settles.
 
Tony Stark said:
Probably the only way Trump can save coal is if he bans fracking.
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I would like to start a coal-mining company and begin an exploration digging venture at his golf course near the Mar-a-Lago Club and if Trump gives me any lip, I will simply tell him that I am helping him to revitalize the coal industry and that I will take care of any permits after digging is completed.
 
Public notice:

You are now in the "All things Trump + Russia" thread

You're welcome!
 
Babbylonian said:
Do you have any idea how offensive it is watching people defend the vilest of humanity?

Take issue with my characterization as you wish, but that's what you're doing: Defending the worst.
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There is a difference between defending someone and declining the (coercive) invitation to jump on a bandwagon fueled by emotional rhetoric.

I am not defending Trump. I am defending logic, reason, and rationality and challenging rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth appeals to emotion. I am challenging the insistence that *in this special case* we should just forget all claims to justice and reason and go ahead and assume guilty until proven innocent because we hate the guy so much that principles don't matter.

Sorry, but I actually value those principles, and to me the ends do NOT justify the means.
 
Babbylonian said:
Apparently, it's nothing that a little false equivalence* and willful disregard for reality can't excuse.

*Just look at the examples of rich US politicians Emily's Cat offered:
McCains: John McCain married an heiress/rich businesswoman.
Kennedys: Rich before entering politics.
Obamas: Rich based largely on bestselling books
Clintons: Rich based on Hillary's legal career and Bill's speaking fees after leaving office.

And none of them are billionaires.
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Oh FFS! Learn 2 Logic!

Emily's Cat said:
Putin has luxuries because he is a corrupt dictator = True Statement
Putin is a corrupt dictator because he has luxuries = False Statement
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How the Trump administration’s secret efforts to ease Russia sanctions fell short


In the early weeks of the Trump administration, former Obama administration officials and State Department staffers fought an intense, behind-the-scenes battle to head off efforts by incoming officials to normalize relations with Russia, according to multiple sources familiar with the events.

Unknown to the public at the time, top Trump administration officials, almost as soon as they took office, tasked State Department staffers with developing proposals for the lifting of economic sanctions, the return of diplomatic compounds and other steps to relieve tensions with Moscow.

These efforts to relax or remove punitive measures imposed by President Obama in retaliation for Russia’s intervention in Ukraine and meddling in the 2016 election alarmed some State Department officials, who immediately began lobbying congressional leaders to quickly pass legislation to block the move, the sources said.
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Nothing to see here. :rolleyes:
 
Emily's Cat said:
Most of congress, then? Seriously, how many mansions and luxury items do the Clintons, the Kennedys, the Obamas, the McCains, etc. have? Pretty much any of our well-established senators or house representatives have a substantial volume of luxuries, mansions, etc. as a result of them being involved in politics for their whole careers.

I suspect this is substantially true of most life-long politicians in any country.
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I'm not aware of any US politicians who built multi-billion dollar fortunes, from virtually nothing, while in office. That's what Putin has accomplished, and almost all of it off the books.
 
It's sickening just how much Trump is kissing Putin's rectum. If his face was any deeper between Putin's cheeks, Putin would require surgery to pull Trump out. Trump is turning against our long time allies and dancing with the gal who took him to the prom.

Learn Russian people. We put a traitor in the White House.
 
Emily's Cat said:
There is a difference between defending someone and declining the (coercive) invitation to jump on a bandwagon fueled by emotional rhetoric.

I am not defending Trump. I am defending logic, reason, and rationality and challenging rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth appeals to emotion. I am challenging the insistence that *in this special case* we should just forget all claims to justice and reason and go ahead and assume guilty until proven innocent because we hate the guy so much that principles don't matter.

Sorry, but I actually value those principles, and to me the ends do NOT justify the means.
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And yet, you were perfectly willing to support a candidate whose entire campaign consisted of "rabid, frothing at the mouth appeals to emotion". How, exactly, does that square with your noble defense of "logic, reason and rationality"?
 
Tony Stark said:
Sounds consistent with someone who is Vladimir Putin's bitch.
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Indeed.

State Department staffers fought an intense, behind-the-scenes battle to head off efforts by incoming officials to normalize relations with Russia, according to multiple sources familiar with the events.

Unknown to the public at the time, top Trump administration officials, almost as soon as they took office, tasked State Department staffers with developing proposals for the lifting of economic sanctions, the return of diplomatic compounds and other steps to relieve tensions with Moscow.

These efforts to relax or remove*punitive measures imposed by President Obama in retaliation for Russia’s intervention in Ukraine and meddling in the 2016 election alarmed some State Department officials, who immediately began lobbying congressional leaders to quickly pass legislation to block the move, the sources said.

“There was serious consideration by the White House to*unilaterally rescind the sanctions,” said Dan Fried, a veteran State Department official who served as chief U.S. coordinator for sanctions policy until he retired in late February. He said in the first few weeks of the administration, he received several*“panicky” calls from U.S. government officials who told him they had been directed to develop a sanctions-lifting package and imploring him, “Please, my God, can’t you stop this?”
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