Merged All things Trump + Russia

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Modified said:
I previously thought it was unlikely, but the way the Trump spokespeople are retroactively minimizing the roles of Manafort and others under suspicion has convinced me that there probably was direct and knowing collusion. If that is true, I would guess that Trump himself was unaware, but is aware now.
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I doubt Trump was unaware. Dealing with oligarchs and corrupt officials is clearly in his bailiwick.
 
Modified said:
I previously thought it was unlikely, but the way the Trump spokespeople are retroactively minimizing the roles of Manafort and others under suspicion has convinced me that there probably was direct and knowing collusion. If that is true, I would guess that Trump himself was unaware, but is aware now.
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If that is true, I would guess that Trump himself was directly involved, and perfectly aware of which lies needed to be told and when.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/world/europe/paul-manafort-ukraine-allegations-trump.html?_r=0
Paul Manafort's name pops up again
On Monday, the intrigue took another turn, when a member of Parliament in Ukraine released documents that he said showed that Mr. Manafort took steps to hide the payments, which were tied to Mr. Manafort’s work for former President Viktor F. Yanukovych. The documents included an invoice that appeared to show $750,000 funneled through an offshore account and disguised as payment for computers.
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Distracted1 said:
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IOW. Was the Trump presidency a means to an end (the defeat of Hillary Clinton) for Russia?, or is it the end in itself. I think that distinction is important.
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According to testimony we've already heard, yes, the goal was to drive a wedge between POTUS and NATO, either by ruining HC's relationship will allies, or picking up and running with the surprisingly useful lunacy of the GOP, to which I would add, the traitorous, eminently bribable GOP.

Sanctions are really hurting Russia's truly lousy and small economy. Putin wants them off, by hook or by crook. He got "crook," and is now laughing at his wild luck.
 
varwoche said:
True, albeit a CT with a lot of circumstantial evidence.

Explain then why Trump flat out lied about his relationship with Putin. Why Trump flat out lied about his role in GOP platform concerning Ukraine. Why Manafort flat out lied about his/Trump role in GOP platform. Why Flynn flat out lied about his Russian contacts. Why Trump lied by omission about Flynn's contacts. Why Sessions flat out lied about his Russian contacts. Why Carter Page flat out lied about his Russian contacts. Why various campaign officials lied about Page's relationship with the campaign. Why Roger Stone flat out lied about his Russian contacts. Why Trump is pretending that Manafort was minimally involved in the campaign.

In the world I live in, the reason people lie is to conceal the truth. Can you explain these lies?

And simultaneously, Trump tosses Ukraine under the bus, defies generations of policy concerning Russia, thumbs his nose at NATO, kisses Putin's ass at every opportunity, and openly encourages Russia to persist with their meddling.

This is not the entirety of the circumstantial evidence mind you.
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There was no lying, they were very busy people running - and so many people have told me this - the most successful campaign for President ever. Whether it's total (legal) votes cast, electoral college votes, share of the vote, approval rating or number of people at the inauguration, by any measure it's the most successful.

Anyway if you're busy running a successful campaign - a campaign that was so successful that the President is now heartily sick and tired of winning (as recent events have shown ;)) - then small details like these are apt to slip your mind.

This absolutely is not a case of the President and/or members of his team lying but rather a combination of #fakenews from a sick, failing, liberal media combined with honest lack of recall about some trivial and tiny details :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Grizzly Bear said:
This russia issue is becoming more of a conspiracy theory than anything else.
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Really? You think that the Secretary of State, utterly unqualified, being a friend of Russia and doing pretty much zilch since inauguration, which neatly fits with Putin's problems with the State Dep. and Flynn's advice to the Russians that once Trump's in power there won't be sanctions for their actions, is just sheer coincidence?
 
*Blinks audibly*

President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, secretly worked for a Russian billionaire to advance the interests of Russian President Vladimir Putin a decade ago and proposed an ambitious political strategy to undermine anti-Russian opposition across former Soviet republics, The Associated Press has learned. The work appears to contradict assertions by the Trump administration and Manafort himself that he never worked for Russian interests.

Manafort proposed in a confidential strategy plan as early as June 2005 that he would influence politics, business dealings and news coverage inside the United States, Europe and the former Soviet republics to benefit the Putin government, even as U.S.-Russia relations under Republican President George W. Bush grew worse. Manafort pitched the plans to Russian aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska, a close Putin ally with whom Manafort eventually signed a $10 million annual contract beginning in 2006, according to interviews with several people familiar with payments to Manafort and business records obtained by the AP. Manafort and Deripaska maintained a business relationship until at least 2009, according to one person familiar with the work.

"We are now of the belief that this model can greatly benefit the Putin Government if employed at the correct levels with the appropriate commitment to success," Manafort wrote in the 2005 memo to Deripaska. The effort, Manafort wrote, "will be offering a great service that can re-focus, both internally and externally, the policies of the Putin government."
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Wow, The Don, I was about to respond to your post before I realized it was satire. It's hard to tell sometimes in these days of the Poe Administration and its fervent supporters.
 
Stacko said:

Man, team Trump just couldn't stop talking to people under FBI surveillance. How many more people in the administration are they going to have to admit had contact with Russian agents.
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Nunes is an idiot. After revealing this, he stated he was going to inform the White House. There is an ongoing criminal investigation and he should not be briefing its subjects.
 
Stacko said:
Uh...


Nunes says he's going to meet Schiff to talk about this soon. Waiting to talk to Comey he says. Obviously you hold a press conference before meeting with relevant officials. WTF is he thinking?
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All this so Donald can falsely claim he was vindicated for lying about Obama?
 
I was talking to my wife about some this. I wonder if the Republicans would ever consider impeaching Trump if enough Russian connections are proven. I assume yes but I am wondering how much proof would be needed before enough would support a impeachment proceeding. Right now we have heard about various circumstantial proof and serious problems with individuals connected with the campaign but it seems there has not been enough presented to decide anything further.

This of course is a hypothetical at this point.
 
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