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Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 3

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Who saw Maddow the other night claiming that Rosenstein's lies before committee could give Trump the pretext he wants to fire him and derail the Mueller investigation?
 
Octavo said:
Who saw Maddow the other night claiming that Rosenstein's lies before committee could give Trump the pretext he wants to fire him and derail the Mueller investigation?
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At the start of the investigation, I thought that the GOP were OK with the investigation. Now it looks as though it's finding stuff, they seem to have thrown their lot in with Trump.

I don't really understand why.
 
jimbob said:
At the start of the investigation, I thought that the GOP were OK with the investigation. Now it looks as though it's finding stuff, they seem to have thrown their lot in with Trump.

I don't really understand why.
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They made the rather silly mistake of thinking that the American electorate will allow themselves to be robbed blind and keep voting GOP
 
jimbob said:
At the start of the investigation, I thought that the GOP were OK with the investigation. Now it looks as though it's finding stuff, they seem to have thrown their lot in with Trump.

I don't really understand why.
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Politics. Their behavior, in general, is pretty much exactly what is to be expected when they're far more interested in "winning" the politics game in the short term than pretty much anything else, including serving the people and country. This is hardly a surprise, of course, given the outright destructive and divisive national strategies that they've been employing to try to keep and gain power.
 
Octavo said:
They made the rather silly mistake of thinking that the American electorate will allow themselves to be robbed blind and keep voting GOP
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A heck of a lot will. Democrats are for murdering babies, after all. Those scummy liberals and progressives are the ones who are actually pushing America towards its destruction by doing things that will anger God, after all. Both sides are corrupt, after all, but the liberal media unfairly plays up Republican corruption and hides Democrat corruption.
 
jimbob said:
At the start of the investigation, I thought that the GOP were OK with the investigation. Now it looks as though it's finding stuff, they seem to have thrown their lot in with Trump.

I don't really understand why.
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I've been telling you that your sources suck for so long now. No wonder you don't understand if you only get misleading information like the NYT editorial deconstructed here (tl;dr: the investigation isn't "finding stuff" at all):

Mueller probe’s credibility with Congressional Republicans is collapsing
 
jimbob said:
At the start of the investigation, I thought that the GOP were OK with the investigation. Now it looks as though it's finding stuff, they seem to have thrown their lot in with Trump.

I don't really understand why.
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Why what? Why they were OK with the investigation at the beginning or why they're throwing their lot in with Trump?

They were probably OK with the investigation at the beginning either because 1) opposing it might have been politically unpopular, and/or 2) they expected the investigation to not be an issue because either they were naive idiots (e.g. "trump is innocent") or they expected a hail mary/gift from god (e.g. Mueler comes down with a case of spontaneous human combustion.)

They are throwing their lot in with Trump now because they realize how bad it will look to have a Republican president charged with conspiring, even if he is completely guilty.
 
Childlike Empress said:
I've been telling you that your sources suck for so long now. No wonder you don't understand if you only get misleading information like the NYT editorial deconstructed here (tl;dr: the investigation isn't "finding stuff" at all):

Mueller probe’s credibility with Congressional Republicans is collapsing
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Ah, that article by that guy who was disbarred for fraud, lying, and committing forgery, again. Sorry, but it's still bollocks. Probably deliberately so, given that it's written by him and published on a Russia propaganda site.

And it's still making the unbelievably stupid argument that because Mueller hasn't publicly released any evidence that no evidence exists. Apart from the fact that it's self-evidently, really obviously, an incredibly stupid argument, it's a stupid argument because it's built on a completely false premise - that there is no evidence in the public domain. There is.

What is known publicly is detailed here and here. And I think it's since then that it's been confirmed that it's been officially confirmed (although it's SOP so didn't really need official confirmation) that when Trump was appointed the Republican candidate he was explicitly warned about possible Russian interference in the election and that he and his team must report anything along those lines. This explains why that matters.

So that "no evidence from any other source" than the Steele Dossier is either made up, or an indication that the author hasn't been looking very hard or paying much attention. And it's also ignoring that the FBI will have investigated and verified anything they're using from the dossier as evidence. Because, you know, that's how criminal investigations work - investigators gather and verify facts.
 
Childlike Empress said:
I've been telling you that your sources suck for so long now. No wonder you don't understand if you only get misleading information like the NYT editorial deconstructed here (tl;dr: the investigation isn't "finding stuff" at all):

Mueller probe’s credibility with Congressional Republicans is collapsing
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What a coincidence, the credibility of Congressional Republicans is collapsing with the public. Nobody is counting on them for anything at this point except to keep on their current trajectory until next November. Anyway, sorry, but your "information" source seems to be in serious denial of stuff we already know in order to slander the FBI and preemptively disparage criminal cases that Mueller hasn't yet made. He ends up basically saying there's nothing there to investigate, and we never would have found out about all of it except for Steele's bogus dossier. I certainly hope TrumpCo's lawyers are much smarter than that.
 
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WilliamSeger said:
He ends up basically saying there's nothing there to investigate, and we never would have found out about all of it except for Steele's bogus dossier.
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Even his statement at the end is made up of misinformation:

I have previously said that the Russiagate scandal would eventually collapse under the weight of its own absurdity. There is after all only so much that can be done to sustain an investigation which has no crime to investigate and no evidence of one.

I suspect that with the confusion caused by the Flynn affair now out of the way, we are coming close to that position now.
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He can only say he thinks it's close to ending if he ignores the fact that Mueller himself has said that he expects it to go on for most of 2018, and perhaps longer. So it looks like we may well not even be halfway through.
 
And I've asked this before, but never got an answer. I wonder if Empress will answer - if there was nothing illegal about the meetings between people in Trump's team and Russians, then why did Flynn and Papadopolous risk jail time by lying to the FBI about them? What reason do you suppose they had to commit federal crimes in order to cover up meetings that were completely above-board and legal? They both risked a potential 5 years in prison, for what gain?
 
Childlike Empress said:
I've been telling you that your sources suck for so long now. No wonder you don't understand if you only get misleading information like the NYT editorial deconstructed here (tl;dr: the investigation isn't "finding stuff" at all):

Mueller probe’s credibility with Congressional Republicans is collapsing
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The claim that the "dossier " is the only source of information is not true.

It is interesting that your source of information had all the same talking points as the more right wing news sources.
 
a_unique_person said:
The claim that the "dossier " is the only source of information is not true.

It is interesting that your source of information had all the same talking points as the more right wing news sources.
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It's a Russian propaganda site, co-founded by the author of the article - a former RT* journalist (who still appears on there regularly, as recently as a couple of days ago), and a former barrister who was disbarred for committing fraud, lying to a client (impoverishing her), and committing forgery. He writes and publishes articles like how popular Putin is and why he should remain president, and why Russia's story about there not really having been a chemical weapons attack in Khan Sheikhoun is correct.

Childlike Empress thinks that extreme political bias like this in reporting is fine from people and sites such as these, because apparently they check their sources. That they appear to check their sources with other "news" services that toe the Russian party line doesn't appear to matter. It's also fine because sources like The Washington Post lean left and therefore they are equally biased, they're just not as "honest" about their bias.

*Which is not very secretly a mouthpiece for the Kremlin:

RT has been frequently described as a propaganda outlet for the Russian government[13][14][15] and its foreign policy.[13][15][16][17][18][19] RT has also been accused of spreading disinformation[19][20][21] by news reporters,[22][23] including some former RT reporters.[24][25][26] The United Kingdom media regulator, Ofcom, has repeatedly found RT to have breached rules on impartiality and of broadcasting "materially misleading" content.[27][28][29][30]
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
He can only say he thinks it's close to ending if he ignores the fact that Mueller himself has said that he expects it to go on for most of 2018, and perhaps longer. So it looks like we may well not even be halfway through.
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Have you checked the schedule going into the new year? Any new witnesses interviewed soon? I've heard the NYT wrote about that.

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
And I've asked this before, but never got an answer. I wonder if Empress will answer - if there was nothing illegal about the meetings between people in Trump's team and Russians, then why did Flynn and Papadopolous risk jail time by lying to the FBI about them? What reason do you suppose they had to commit federal crimes in order to cover up meetings that were completely above-board and legal? They both risked a potential 5 years in prison, for what gain?
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I'm on record having no answer to this - almost a month ago I would guess. Papadopolous seems to be a low level trickster, with Flynn - no idea. He doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the drawer either so maybe he thought he would get away with it, not understanding that he had been surveilled and was about to be entrapped - maybe to protect Bibi and cohorts, although as I said before that road of investigation is closed.

Kinda cute how much energy you put into deceiving yourself, btw. Give it time.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Have you checked the schedule going into the new year? Any new witnesses interviewed soon?
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Yes, there have been reports that there are more interviews lined up for next year. The latest news was that Mueller was looking at transactions going through Trump's favourite bank who were fined a very hefty amount not very long ago for laundering money for Russian oligarchs.

I'm on record having no answer to this - almost a month ago I would guess. Papadopolous seems to be a low level trickster, with Flynn - no idea. He doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the drawer either so maybe he thought he would get away with it, not understanding that he had been surveilled and was about to be entrapped - maybe to protect Bibi and cohorts, although as I said before that road of investigation is closed.
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There is, of course, a far more parsimonious answer...

Kinda cute how much energy you put into deceiving yourself, btw. Give it time.
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...says the guy who literally links to Kremlin propaganda sites...
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Yes, there have been reports that there are more interviews lined up for next year. The latest news was that Mueller was looking at transactions going through Trump's favourite bank who were fined a very hefty amount not very long ago for laundering money for Russian oligarchs.
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Really. There have also been reports that nothing is scheduled for 2018. Meanwhile the House Intelligence Committee seems to be quite busy, having interviewed "Insurance Andy" for eight hours behind closed doors yesterday.

We'll see what comes out of all of that, and contrary to most of your CT comrades, I think you might be capable of admitting that you were wrong at some point. The same goes for me, I'm almost tired of being right all the time. You might want to avoid sinking to their levels, though, as you really won't get to me with weakmindedness like in your last sentence. So much should be obvious. ;)
 
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