All things considered, a coathanger is safer

ImaginalDisc said:
I'm not a doctor, but I don't think there's a safe way to shoot one's self in the abdomen. The incredible risks she took probably can be used to make a strong case that she wasn't in command of her faculties.
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Oh, I agree with you, too.

But I don't think it's generically true that people who intentionally shoot themselves in the abdomen are ipso facto crazy. They may simply be uninformed in the potential benifits and risks of taking such an action. I realize that's a bit of a stretch. But let's change it to, oh, putting needles in the stomach. I don't think people who do that are neccessarily crazy, but might simply be uninformed.

Aaron
 
Mycroft said:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2585102&page=1
The amazing thing is the judge ruled it wasn't a crime. WTF...?!!
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I am going to guess what a Fundy preacher will say about this tragic case of despair come Sunday:

"The wages of sin (fornication/adultery) is death (for the fetus that didn't make it out of the womb.)"

I even know of a couple where I live who I'll bet the over on, to pull that card out and play it. :p

There is nothing good in this story from any angle.

Apparently a bad relationship
Careless sex out of wedlock
Unwanted (by someone it seems) pregnancy
Unwanted child (that never got born)

Lose-lose-lose-lose

The young lady badly needs someone to offer her something better than what she's been getting in the love and caring department.

Jesus wept. :(

DR
 
CFLarsen said:
I'm not personalizing the issue, Mycroft. I am merely asking what point it is you are trying to make.

Is it your contention that the crime is murder? If it is, why not just say so?
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I think it's murder but I don't see why it is necassary for Mycroft to say so. Why not take this to the other thread? I think this discussion is important and I would like not to see it derailed.
 
HeavyAaron said:
While I agree with your assessment in this case, I dislike your method as a general principle. How do you propose distinguishing stupid decisions from crazy decisions?
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That's not my department. That's the job of the justice system. I just think her ability to distinguish right from wrong is open to question here. Mind you, I'm not a big fan of the insanity defense; I'm particularly fond of Mark Twain's opinion of it rant:
Heaven knows insanity was disreputable enough, long ago; but now that the lawyers have got to cutting every gallows rope and picking every prison lock with it, it is become a sneaking villainy that ought to hang and keep on hanging its sudden possessors until evil-doers should conclude that the safest plan was to never claim to have it until they came by it legitimately.
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Katana said:
I think the rest of us are wondering why you are focusing on something that we understood from the beginning. Somehow we all picked up on murder being the crime, and the discussion has moved along. Why do you belabor the obvious?
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Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim...
 
BPSCG said:
That's not my department. That's the job of the justice system. I just think her ability to distinguish right from wrong is open to question here. Mind you, I'm not a big fan of the insanity defense; I'm particularly fond of Mark Twain's opinion of it rant:
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Okay, I'm sorry, I thought your point was to show that she was crazy, and thus not completely culpable. And you provided support for your position. But IMHO that support failed to distinguish stupid from crazy, which I feel is key.

Aaron
 
Darth Rotor said:
"Jesus wept" is an older turn of phrase. I prefer the old school to the "new and Vitamin-Silly enhanced" phrase in this case.

DR
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Err, "Jesus wept," is a biblical passage. The shortest one, in point of fact. It's from John 11:35.
 
It was murder, plain and simple. Anyone who thinks differently needs to have their head checked, and obviously don't have children.

Currently medical progress makes a baby viable for living outside the womb at 26 weeks. Maybe it's 24.

Maybe having a wife who works the O.R. at our local childrens hospital gives me a different insight...I dunno...
 
RandFan said:
I think it's murder but I don't see why it is necassary for Mycroft to say so. Why not take this to the other thread? I think this discussion is important and I would like not to see it derailed.
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I am trying to find out just what it is Mycroft wants to argue. That is the exact opposite of derailing.
 
Demigorgon said:
It was murder, plain and simple. Anyone who thinks differently needs to have their head checked, and obviously don't have children.
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Or may be more familiar with the legal definition of murder than with the medical definition.

Oh, wait. There isn't a medical definition of murder, is there?

The basic problem is that legal terms -- like "murder" -- require legal definitions, and a lot of the legal definitions don't necessarily fit modern ethics. I don't have the Virginia statutes to hand (and can't find them quickly on the Web), so I don't know what "murder" means in Virginia, but it would not surprise me if somehow unborn children "fell through the cracks." (I know that until recently Texas excluded unborn children from being murder victims.)
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Err, "Jesus wept," is a biblical passage. The shortest one, in point of fact. It's from John 11:35.
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Exactly, insofar as age.

The prase/quotation has been used in many other contexts, however. Put another way, it has passed into usage beyond the liturgical and canonical. :)

I was using it in such a sense. This cavalier usage also puts me in jeopardy, as some will assign such a quip as using the Lord's name in vain.

I still think it fit this circumstance.

DR
 
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ImaginalDisc said:
Err, "Jesus wept," is a biblical passage. The shortest one, in point of fact. It's from John 11:35.
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I think that DR was referring to the practice of quoting that passage in situations like this.

ETA: Blast! DR types too fast! S/he beat me to it!

Marc
 
Darth Rotor said:
Exactly, insofar as age.

The prase/quotation has been used in many other contexts, however. Put another way, it has passed into usage beyond the liturgical and canonical. :)

I was using it in such a sense.

DR
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I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.
 
With a bullet through her womb, would it be impossible for her to have any other children?
 
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