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Aliens!

8enotto said:
The volcano they claim is a portal to the underworld is visible from my home. Neither I nor the government monitors all over the mountain top detect them, I salute the aliens on the cloaking tech and beating physics.
Neither of which Jaime Maussan wants to explain in detail.
Click to expand...

Oooh, there's a portal to the underworld too! I haven't really looked beyond the paper mache E.T. "corpses which look like they were made by school children.

Even Ryan Graves, a UFO promoter himself who was present at the hearing, called it "a huge step backwards" and an "unsubstantiated stunt".
 
Beginning to suspect we're going to be hearing about how Grusch, Graves, and others were taken in by Russian disinformation very soon
Robert Skvarla (Twitter/X, Sep 13, 2023)
Click to expand...
Includes tweets from Clint Ehrlich.
 
The only bar to getting into office in Mexico is undetectable corruption and popular vote. Any idiot brazen enough can do it. Then steal all you can in the one term you get and prepare the getaway to Aruba.

To me this all was useless showboating of a pet interest.

Many believe, it's the 3rd religion in Mexico after christians and soccer. Skywatchers is a huge and loose group with cameras pointed up into the blue, and mostly over Mexico City do they catch the best unexplained video. Not counting of course a load of random light sources, smog, cloud refraction and personal bias.
Then they get on TV for it. Pretty strong influence to stay uninformed.
How can they see spacecraft entering a magma column on the volcano from miles away when government monitors on the rim of it only see it gassing off with no surface disruption?
It's all willful ignorance.

The Peruvian govt also seen evidence of deformed skull and long three fingered hands aliens right in their congress chamber. Mummies and all. Then they refused to leave the evidence in the hands of professional mummy experts because the finders need to study them more.
All this after the fraudster who made them from regular human mummies made a video showing how he did it.
Jaime Maussan was knee deep in that mess too.
 
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novaphile said:
And... Just to reinforce what has already been mentioned in that thread.

Weird skull shapes, in a region that has a long history of 'skull shaping'* does not, aliens, make.

* Binding babies heads, including binding heads to rigid boards, to cause fashionable deformations of the skull.
Click to expand...


****. Double ****.

I hadn’t even heard of this skull “shaping” business before this. That the Peruvians did this as a matter of course was an interesting snippet I learned in the course of this thread. But I’d assumed that’s something they did to the mummies. I mean, you’re embalming and hocus-pocusing and entombing the body of the king, or priest, or whoever, and what’s more packing in goodies for them to use, and wives and concubines and armies as well; so okay, while you’re at it you also file away their skull, and their hands also, why not. It’s completely weird, sure, but making mummies of them in the expectation that they’ll resume life afterwards, that’s weird too, so this weirdness doesn’t really stand out particularly.

But when I checked a bit (cursorily, a quick look at a few articles that Google threw up, just now), I see that they did this skull shaping things to people who were still alive, and not to the mummies! How utterly horrible is that! (Not that that has anything to do with religion per se, apparently, more a social-status thing, or so a quick look-through seems to indicate.)

I’d heard of the Chinese strapping young girls’ feet to have them, the feet, all small and dainty. I suppose this is something like that. But it’s …ewww-inducing, this thing, about “shaping” skulls, not of mummies but of live babies and children!


(This won’t be news to you, clearly you know about this already, but still, a link: https://www.iflscience.com/why-ancient-peruvians-had-elongated-skulls-no-its-not-aliens-46179)


…Oh, and apparently it isn’t something done only in Peru. This article says “skull elongation” was practiced across different cultures, all over the world, not just in the Americas but also in Africa, and the Far East, and, yes, in Europe as well. Wow.
 
8enotto said:
The only bar to getting into office in Mexico is undetectable corruption and popular vote. Any idiot brazen enough can do it. Then steal all you can in the one term you get and prepare the getaway to Aruba.

To me this all was useless showboating of a pet interest.

Many believe, it's the 3rd religion in Mexico after christians and soccer. Skywatchers is a huge and loose group with cameras pointed up into the blue, and mostly over Mexico City do they catch the best unexplained video. Not counting of course a load of random light sources, smog, cloud refraction and personal bias.
Then they get on TV for it. Pretty strong influence to stay uninformed.
How can they see spacecraft entering a magma column on the volcano from miles away when government monitors on the rim of it only see it gassing off with no surface disruption?
It's all willful ignorance.

The Peruvian govt also seen evidence of deformed skull and long three fingered hands aliens right in their congress chamber. Mummies and all. Then they refused to leave the evidence in the hands of professional mummy experts because the finders need to study them more.
All this after the fraudster who made them from regular human mummies made a video showing how he did it.
Jaime Maussan was knee deep in that mess too.
Click to expand...


As far as “bar”, I’d meant a certain minimum level, a minimal quality, as far as the thing itself, the content of the presentation itself, in order for it to make to that (presumably august) platform; and not so much a bar for the candidates in terms of getting elected. But I suppose that is, in effect, the same thing, in that they’re probably closely correlated, those two: if you get the foolish and the ignorant and the corrupt elected, then they in turn will likely enough take these nonsensical ideas seriously (or else maybe pretend to, to pander to their gullible votebanks).

I’d asked about the situation in Mexico because I wasn’t really aware, but it isn’t as if other places are any different! I mean, take the US, right? Same thing, more or less, even as things stand right now! …And imagine, if Trump had managed to get in again last time, or, FSM forbid, should he get manage to get his foul butt in through the door next time, then one shudders to think what might be the state of affairs under this vilest and stupidest head-of-state to ever have besmirched high office in the US, and his cross-eyed spineless supporters and hangers-on: I’ve no doubt we’ll end up discussing completely whacko things being done in the US government then, and telling ourselves that the US isn’t unique in this respect, and maybe bringing up this aliens weirdness in Mexico as example!


----------

In any case, this nonsense, is it really any more nonsensical than the other kinds of nonsense that people believe? Those cargo cults, for instance: When Christian missionaries went down there to “civilize” these savages, and questioned them about their absurd beliefs about John Frum returning to them despite not having done that for decades together, apparently they in turn were asked, in all earnestness, why John Frum taking mere decades was unreasonable, given that the missionaries were waiting literally millennia for their messiah to return.

What I’m saying is, while all of this mummies-and-aliens business appears completely cock-eyed, but it’s not one bit more so than the absurd beliefs that Jesus-worshiping half-wits entertain. Or Allah-worshiping idiots, or …Vishnu-worshiping loons, or whoever else. Belief in the nonsense of Christianity is no less laughable really than belief in aliens, after all, right?!


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What’s that you say there, the part about the guy/s who’d doctored these mummies having actually admitted to having done that? Why’d they do that, then, admit to doing this? And if they’ve already admitted to fraud, then that’s the end to this whole business right there, surely?
 
A bunch of Mexico's scientists had a conference where this thing was discussed.

Heh, both POVs were expressed at the conference. What Pixel42 said a few posts up, and she was perfectly justified in saying it, was reflected there: “Faced with the serious problems we are experiencing in Mexico and the entire planet, starting with climate change, war, and pandemics, it is sad to gather to talk about the misdeeds of a professional charlatan.”

On the other hand, I think differently, and more to the point, and regardless of what I think --- not about the truth value of the aliens claim, that's obvious, I mean what I think about which should be the right course of action, ignore it, or actively 'solve' the case --- regardless of what I think about that, what I expect would be reasonable for the Mexican government/ scientific community to think and to do, was voiced there as well: “(The claims had) made scientific rationality in Mexico the subject of ridicule... What is at stake here is whether our country will follow science or superstitions and quackery.”

Link: https://www.wired.com/story/mexico-fake-aliens-science-fightback/

(Like I said, the article doesn't spell out anything concrete they did, though, to set the debunking ball rolling. Just talk, seems like.)


-----

Circling back to what I think, as far as what should be done, I firmly believe that this should be debunked. Not ignored, but clearly examined and very clearly debunked. Not just forgotten about and moved on from. That's, like, kind of exactly what the whole Million Dollar Challenge was about, right? Kind of exactly what a not insubstantial part of the whole skeptical thing is about, which is (not exclusively, maybe not necessarily even primarily, but certainly not insubstantially) about, and that is debunking fallacious and often fraudulent claims that the gullible might be taken in by.
 
Chanakya said:
****. Double ****.

I hadn’t even heard of this skull “shaping” business before this. That the Peruvians did this as a matter of course was an interesting snippet I learned in the course of this thread. But I’d assumed that’s something they did to the mummies. I mean, you’re embalming and hocus-pocusing and entombing the body of the king, or priest, or whoever, and what’s more packing in goodies for them to use, and wives and concubines and armies as well; so okay, while you’re at it you also file away their skull, and their hands also, why not. It’s completely weird, sure, but making mummies of them in the expectation that they’ll resume life afterwards, that’s weird too, so this weirdness doesn’t really stand out particularly.

But when I checked a bit (cursorily, a quick look at a few articles that Google threw up, just now), I see that they did this skull shaping things to people who were still alive, and not to the mummies! How utterly horrible is that! (Not that that has anything to do with religion per se, apparently, more a social-status thing, or so a quick look-through seems to indicate.)

I’d heard of the Chinese strapping young girls’ feet to have them, the feet, all small and dainty. I suppose this is something like that. But it’s …ewww-inducing, this thing, about “shaping” skulls, not of mummies but of live babies and children!


(This won’t be news to you, clearly you know about this already, but still, a link: https://www.iflscience.com/why-ancient-peruvians-had-elongated-skulls-no-its-not-aliens-46179)


…Oh, and apparently it isn’t something done only in Peru. This article says “skull elongation” was practiced across different cultures, all over the world, not just in the Americas but also in Africa, and the Far East, and, yes, in Europe as well. Wow.
Click to expand...

And incredibly, some cultures still chop bits off baby's dicks :eek:;):p

ETA: Sorry, couldn't resist...
 
The Peruvian who modified the mummies didn't do himself but showed how soaking a mummy in water and reshaping hands and feet into three long 7 jointed fingers was possible.
To put a name and face to it is maga stupid in scale. It's a serious crime. He released his video before the people that "found" the mummies presented them to Peruvian government folks. Then they scooped it all up and ran when it was declared a cultural crime and ran.
I understand the Peruvian govt has some of the material now anyway. The mini mummies are best. One has no knee joints. Another has gold metal disks inside the body. It's art more than archeological finds.

It was very publicized for a bit until someone demanded they turn them over and start telling truths, not stories of odd aliens. There is a thread here somewhere too, with links.
 
8enotto said:
The Peruvian who modified the mummies didn't do himself but showed how soaking a mummy in water and reshaping hands and feet into three long 7 jointed fingers was possible.
To put a name and face to it is maga stupid in scale. It's a serious crime. He released his video before the people that "found" the mummies presented them to Peruvian government folks. Then they scooped it all up and ran when it was declared a cultural crime and ran.
I understand the Peruvian govt has some of the material now anyway. The mini mummies are best. One has no knee joints. Another has gold metal disks inside the body. It's art more than archeological finds.

It was very publicized for a bit until someone demanded they turn them over and start telling truths, not stories of odd aliens. There is a thread here somewhere too, with links.
Click to expand...


Ah right, ok, got that. ...And yes, I'd read somewhere, maybe in one of the links here (or maybe in the other thread) that peru's after him, accusing him of smuggling out those mummies or something like that.

So, seems cut and dried. Even if someone hasn't directly confessed to doctoring those specific mummies, but they've clearly said they've done something exactly similar.

This seems so very easy to debunk, so completely straightforwrd! On the science side, just do a full-on autopsy (or whatever you call cutting open a mummy), and test it for dna and stuff, and then say, Here you are, it's human, ancient woo-ridden human but human nevertheless. And on the policing-and-detection side, clearly find out where he got those things from, and then announce, Look, this lowlife dug it out of this site in Peru, and then smuggled them in here. Should be simple enough, either/both course/s of action.


...You're right, "art" indeed! Completely whacko art! But that's what religion amounts to, in the here and now as well as back then!
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
And incredibly, some cultures still chop bits off baby's dicks :eek:;):p

ETA: Sorry, couldn't resist...
Click to expand...


Agreed, that's no less ghastly! Agreed absolutely, and quite literally. ...And not to forget the mutilation of female genitalia in some cultures/religions.

Absolutely, the elongated-skull-shaping thing is no less weird, no less insane, no less brutal, than these practices that are carried out in our present, "civilized" times as well.
 
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