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Alex Tsakiris and the Skeptiko Podcast - CRITICAL LOOK AND OVERVIEW.

Substantive though please! Don't just come over and shout bonkers or the post will probably be deleted - its a no-flame forum now.
 
From the latest podcast:

http://www.skeptiko.com/anthony-peake-near-death-experiences-versus-actual-death/#more-2271

Anthony Peake said:
It’s an interesting point. You say that we all exist within this consensual reality and time is part of that consensual reality but you and I both know, of course, that if you actually apply some elements of quantum physics to this and you apply the idea of the implications of the Copenhagen interpretation in the sense that the act of observation actually collapses the wave function into a point- particle, which actively suggests that the act of observation by a conscious mind literally creates the universe around you.
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:boxedin:
 
Steve001 said:
It does some good to critique here, but it might be even better too critique there. We all know Alex's views are skewed. Why not engage in pointing that over at Skeptiko ?
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No, thanks. I was not impressed by the experience of the comments section for the show, with perfectly polite posts being removed, and sniping by Alex's cheerleader/sockpuppet being allowed. I can think of better uses of my time than battling against willful ignorance and capricious moderation.
 
zooterkin said:
No, thanks. I was not impressed by the experience of the comments section for the show, with perfectly polite posts being removed, and sniping by Alex's cheerleader/sockpuppet being allowed. I can think of better uses of my time than battling against willful ignorance and capricious moderation.
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Sorry to hear that. I'm not impressed either, but remember. When battling against willful ignorance and capricious moderation you can make your point to all the lurkers. Isn't that worth something ?

P.S. I was actually speaking about commenting in the forum not the podcasts per say.
 
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zooterkin said:
I don't know if it is Alex or a separate person, which is why I said "cheerleader/sockpuppet" rather than one or the other.
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Yeah, noted, the RW article just popped to my mind immediately.
 
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It's been a long time since I last posted in this thread, but of course I've been listening to the show.

I still haven't heard or seen any clarification from Alex to his position regarding the double slit experiment and consciousness issue, please let me know if he has spoken or written about it in more detail.

Something Alex said about climate science caught my attention in a recent interview:

http://www.skeptiko.com/184-dr-rupert-sheldrake-sets-science-free-from-dogma/

Alex Tsakiris:

At some level that’s true and at another level it’s equally true that science has been fundamentally discredited in recent years. We can look at Climate Gate or Peak Oil or even UFOs and ghosts. Even evolution. All those are topics that have come to the fore and science has had their say. In one way or another it’s come out of it pretty battered as a result.

...

Alex Tsakiris:

They are but I think people are able to understand technology and engineering and say, “Wow, this is great. My new iPhone 5 is fantastic.” And they’re able to separate that from the “scientist” who stands up there and says this or that about climate change or about any of these other topics that then turn out to be not only provably wrong but just kind of on the surface of it silly.
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Alex, would be nice to hear your position on AGW as well, the interview makes it sound like you don't give much credence to climate science, and you mentioned "Climate Gate" in the same context.

It still puzzles me why he thinks that good evidence of afterlife, etc. would be so scary to atheists or skeptics. It wouldn't, on the contrary, it would be very interesting. Maybe you should talk about this issue with some of your atheist or skeptic guests...
 
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Kuko 4000 said:
It still puzzles me why he thinks that good evidence of afterlife, etc. would be so scary to atheists or skeptics. It wouldn't, on the contrary, it would be very interesting. Maybe you should talk about this issue with some of your atheist or skeptic guests...
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It puzzles me too. All of the pro-psi folks there at Skeptiko think the same. I'll even go so far as stating that belief seems to be a prevalent throughout the psi community.
 
http://www.skeptiko.com/william-bengston-hands-on-healing-research-ignored-by-cancer-industry/

So, William Bengston, President of the Society for Scientific Exploration has done (and replicated) rigorous lab studies on mice where he shows that people, including himself, can cure mice of a serious cancer just by keeping their hands around the cage. Other people who want to participate have to go through a training session first where Bengston teaches the healing technique.

He also claims that he can differentiate a sealed envelope with hair from a sick animal from a control envelope (in a double blind setting) with amazing accuracy.

I would guess that both of these are eligible for the JREF MDC.

Oh my :boxedin:
 
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Steve001 said:
Kuko 4000 said:
It still puzzles me why he thinks that good evidence of afterlife, etc. would be so scary to atheists or skeptics. It wouldn't, on the contrary, it would be very interesting. Maybe you should talk about this issue with some of your atheist or skeptic guests...
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It puzzles me too. All of the pro-psi folks there at Skeptiko think the same. I'll even go so far as stating that belief seems to be a prevalent throughout the psi community.
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I think there's two reasons, one broad, and one more specific to the afterlife thing.

1. Projection. The thought that some of this stuff might not be true scares them. They want it to be true so badly they can taste it. Many have made important changes in their lives based purely on the assumption that it's true, and if it's not, they'll have nothing but regrets. So they assume the reverse is true for us.

2. All atheists are immoral, sinning bastards who are going straight to hell. If they found that the afterlife was true, they'd be forced to realize that. After all, morality can only come from God.

The first I can at least sympathize with, even while diagnosing it as obviously flawed thinking. The second is not only offensive and shallow, but misguided in two different ways:

First, obviously, most atheists are moral people because of empathy and the desire to live in a civilized society. I like to ask these people "if God said it was ok to torture kittens, would that make it ok? Personally, I don't need an excuse to not torture kittens. If you do, you might want to see a shrink about that."

Second, it shows the same flaw in critical thinking as those who believe that creationism/ID is pro-Bible. There are thousands of religions, tens of thousands of gods, followed/worshipped by various people across the globe. Proof of directed creation or the afterlife doesn't constitute any sort of proof of Christianity. If we did find evidence, I'd consider converting to Hinduism long before I'd consider worshipping their evil bastard of a God.
 
Steve001 said:
It puzzles me too. All of the pro-psi folks there at Skeptiko think the same. I'll even go so far as stating that belief seems to be a prevalent throughout the psi community.
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Knowing how the universe / world works brings comfort and safety. If an afterlife would be proven true, it would be a radical shift for those who oppose it or question it deeply. All new radical ideas have been resisted through out time, be it from the side of religon, politics or science, its nothing new.
People who have alot invested in a particular worldview would naturally be more affraid of big changes. Example: check the rise in suicide rate after the collapse of communism.

I'm not saying it would be a problem for open minded skeptics, but for alot of folks it would be.
 
As far as the then upcoming paper by Radin is concerned, I downloaded and looked at his refence #2:
2S. Gro¨ blacher, T. Paterek, R. Kaltenbaek, C. Brukner, M. Zukowski, M. Aspelmeyer, and A. Zeilinger, Nature 446, 871 (2007).
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(Vol 446| 19 April 2007| doi:10.1038/nature05677)

Of this reference Radin states in his own paper, on the bottom right of the first page # 157:
... the curious effect whereby quantum objects appear to behave differently when observed than when unobserved.2
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The referenced page appears to me to say no such thing.
It seemed to me that Radin based his statement about 'the curious effect' on the in the reference first page #871 appearing statement that:
Therefore it is reasonable to consider the violation of local realism a well established fact.
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Or in other words, therefor it supports my (Radin's) curious effect; a difference between observation and non observation.


Subsequently I lost interest.
 
skiba said:
Knowing how the universe / world works brings comfort and safety. If an afterlife would be proven true, it would be a radical shift for those who oppose it or question it deeply. ...
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If an afterlife would be proven true, that would than be part of how the universe/world works. Wouldn't that bring comfort and safety also?

Or do you really mean something else with:
skiba said:
Knowing how the universe / world works ...
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?
 
Daylightstar said:
If an afterlife would be proven true, that would than be part of how the universe/world works. Wouldn't that bring comfort and safety also?

Or do you really mean something else with:

?
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Eventually it would bring comfort, but its natural for humans to resist change if your attached and invested in a particular worldview. It becomes part of who you are and you will defend that at all cost.

Would it make you feel safe if tomorrow you woke up from the matrix?
 
skiba said:
Eventually it would bring comfort, but its natural for humans to resist change if your attached and invested in a particular worldview. It becomes part of who you are and you will defend that at all cost.
...
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This reminds me of the ultra rigid mindset of psi- and other irrationality promotors.

My advice would be, unambiguously establish the reality (not conviction) of psi. If you'd still experience the same problems there'd be a basis for your complaint if based on facts.


skiba said:
...
Would it make you feel safe if tomorrow you woke up from the matrix?
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This is an irrational question.
 
Daylightstar said:
This reminds me of the ultra rigid mindset of psi- and other irrationality promotors.

My advice would be, unambiguously establish the reality (not conviction) of psi. If you'd still experience the same problems there'd be a basis for your complaint if based on facts.
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Well yes ofcourse once the dust has settled, but the initial shock would be great. After all it would be THE discovery of all time

Daylightstar said:
This is an irrational question.
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Just trying to convey what it could be like if your world view crumbled. It wouldn't feel very comforting even though you would be closer to the truth.
 
skiba said:
Well yes ofcourse once the dust has settled, but the initial shock would be great. After all it would be THE discovery of all time


Just trying to convey what it could be like if your world view crumbled. It wouldn't feel very comforting even though you would be closer to the truth.
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I've had my world view crumbled many times in life. You get over it.
 
skiba said:
Well yes ofcourse once the dust has settled, but the initial shock would be great. After all it would be THE discovery of all time
...
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There would be surprise I suppose, not too much dust in scientific circles. Except perhaps from some actual scientists trampling over each other to investigate further.
 
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