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Alex Jones - guilty of "Hate Speech" crimes?

I think he would have had to tell his audience to "get out there and place bombs at public events". Which he didn't.

No. I wasn't saying that he did. It's just good to know that if he ever goes that far, he'd be punishable.

I do feel creepy defending him, just to be clear.

:newlol :hug8

The greatest gift we could ever give Alex Jones, is to take him seriously.

Indeed. Although I don't visit his sites if I can help it, so I'm glad to get feedback from people who do.


Does he say stuff like "Rise up"? Where does that meme come from?
 
No. I wasn't saying that he did. It's just good to know that if he ever goes that far, he'd be punishable.

:newlol :hug8

Indeed. Although I don't visit his sites if I can help it, so I'm glad to get feedback from people who do.

Does he say stuff like "Rise up"? Where does that meme come from?

Jones loves to rile up the troops without giving specific order that could see him in cuffs.

"1776 will happen again!!!"

"We will not accept martial law!!!"

"The people will not accept this lying down!!!!"
 
AJ is a crass act, but I'm not in favor of hate speech statutes.

I'm not too strong on them.

Look let's face it. Alex Jones' karma is horrible. Insanely bad. I do believe in karma. Or maybe it's just the law of averages.

Seriously, people like him always seem to come to a bad end. In the world he lives in, you know easy it must be to absolutely set someone off?

I'd lay odds his story is NOT going to have a happy ending. Without any help from us, that is.

YAY! :)
 
I'm not too strong on them.

Look let's face it. Alex Jones' karma is horrible. Insanely bad. I do believe in karma. Or maybe it's just the law of averages.

Seriously, people like him always seem to come to a bad end. In the world he lives in, you know easy it must be to absolutely set someone off?

I'd lay odds his story is NOT going to have a happy ending. Without any help from us, that is.

YAY! :)

Karma_zps051c2f80.jpg


Having posted that, I'd agree with you about what might happen to AJ.

It's quite likely a violent fan of AJ takes issue with him on some matter and assassinates him.
 
This is something I really struggle with. I am ideologically opposed to any restriction on speech because I believe anytime someone limits someone elses speech we have set a dangerous precedent. At the same time, I can't support the type of hate speech Alex Jones spews - and he does engage in hate speech as a matter of routine.

The problem is where do you draw the line? Alex Jones has made his entire career off of irrational fear mongering and telling people that everything is a conspiracy against them. The bread and butter of his empire is fear: fear against of the unknown, fear of change, fear of the "other." But while we probably all agree that this sort of fear mongering speech is protected, it translates all to easy to hate. Because if "the other" is out to get us, then we must stop them through whatever means possible. And since "the other" is always supported by a gigantic, monolithic, conspiracy supported by individuals who have malicious content...violence is warranted in the eyes of Jones followers. And clearly then they've gone to far.

So where do you draw the line?
 
This is something I really struggle with. I am ideologically opposed to any restriction on speech because I believe anytime someone limits someone elses speech we have set a dangerous precedent. At the same time, I can't support the type of hate speech Alex Jones spews - and he does engage in hate speech as a matter of routine.

The problem is where do you draw the line? Alex Jones has made his entire career off of irrational fear mongering and telling people that everything is a conspiracy against them. The bread and butter of his empire is fear: fear against of the unknown, fear of change, fear of the "other." But while we probably all agree that this sort of fear mongering speech is protected, it translates all to easy to hate. Because if "the other" is out to get us, then we must stop them through whatever means possible. And since "the other" is always supported by a gigantic, monolithic, conspiracy supported by individuals who have malicious content...violence is warranted in the eyes of Jones followers. And clearly then they've gone to far.

Well said. :thumbsup:

So where do you draw the line?

Where he says "let's attack Washington and bring your guns"?
 
Isn't, inciting people to commit violence, a crime in the US?
 
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Don't be ridiculous.

The fact that Alex Jones attracts nuts is no reason whatsoever to lock up Alex Jones. This is just the kind of silly idea that Alex Jones says is happening all the time.

Locking up people like Alex Jones for "hate speech" (which quite often translates as little more than "speech I happen to hate") would make it justifiable to have locked up people like Stanley Kubrick or Anthony Burgess when gangs of kids emulated the droogs. Or perhaps we should start locking up the makers of gangster films and TV series, or the makers of Romper Stomper, or Quentin Tarantino, or gangsta rappers or Rage Against the Machine.

I'm sure that sanctimonious types could be employed to scour all literature and airwaves for speech they hate and report it to the authorities. And if so, that would be a horrible irony, wouldn't it?
 
No. I wasn't saying that he did. It's just good to know that if he ever goes that far, he'd be punishable.


But he'll never go that far. It's overwhelmingly likely that AJ doesn't believe any of the crap he spews. His entire schtick is engineered to keep his idiot fanboys just riled up enough to send him money, but not riled up enough to actually do anything real.

Look how quickly he distanced himself from reports that the Boston Bombers were fans of his. That's what he does every time one of his fans goes off, as he knows being associated with them will kill his revenue stream. He walks a fine line, and has been doing just that for almost two decades now. There's no reason to think he'll suddenly screw up the balancing act so badly as to expose himself to criminal charges.
 
Locking up people like Alex Jones for "hate speech" (which quite often translates as little more than "speech I happen to hate")...

I don't advocate locking up Alex Jones -- though it's an interesting idea -- but I don't think the above is a very good definition of 'hate speech.' The usual definition is, advocating national, racial or religious hatred that crosses the line into inciting discrimination or violence.

Many countries around the world have laws against it, not just the US.
 
Isn't, inciting people to commit violence, a crime in the US?

Yes, but the bar to clear for that particular crime is very high. It basically amounts to someone saying directly, "Go and shoot XYZ." Alex Jones, while a complete nutbar, isn't stupid enough to say anything that could be directly construed as a call to violence. He may be a toxic windbag, but he's a completely legal toxic windbag.
 
What does AJ say that is sooooooo horrible that we would want to criminalize it??
 
I support free speech. That's nothing to do with wanting Alex Jones locked in prison. He has the right to say whatever he wants to say, and I have the right to wish he'd rot in a cell.
 
But he'll never go that far. It's overwhelmingly likely that AJ doesn't believe any of the crap he spews. His entire schtick is engineered to keep his idiot fanboys just riled up enough to send him money, but not riled up enough to actually do anything real.

But how can he know that? Sure he keeps them riled up by telling them stuff he almost certainly knows to be a lie. But how can he know what effect it's having on his audience? "Well, Your Honor, I expected to make them angry, but not that angry."

Under the law the inciter must specifically recommend the illegal act. So if Jones says, "Go bomb innocent civilians," then he will have committed a crime. He doesn't do that, obviously, so he can't have incited the Boston bombers. But if he says, "We must resist the oppression of government by any means at our disposal," then later says, "No, no, I meant by any lawful and peaceful means," then how can he disclaim all responsibility when one of his listeners misinteprets what meant? Sure, he can be legally excused, but not morally excused.


Indeed, but I consider that also dishonest. His argument sounds like, "It makes no sense to connect me to the accused killers because I believe they weren't the real killers anyway, and that this is all just a government setup." That's just insulting. It's saying, "In my own little self-constructed fantasy world, I bear no blame, so stop blaming me." Now consider that his fantasy world exists only to earn him money and make him feel important. How does this "defense" work except to make him more slimy and sleazy?

He walks a fine line, and has been doing just that for almost two decades now.

Sure, just like there's a fine line between creative accounting and embezzlement. There's one level of scrutiny that asks, "Is this legal?" and another that asks, "Is this moral?" We're focused on the legality of his actions because the thread title asks whether Jones is guilty of hate-speech crimes. But legality is only a form of morality, and we should be thinking about those questions too if we're conscientious.

If one constantly exercises his free speech for the purpose of riling up people, and one of those people says he did what he did at least in part because of Jones' baiting, then how long will a civilized people let that stand? I always turn to George Washington's second inaugural address for guidance on this point. He notes that a free people must necessarily also be a disciplined people because civilization will not tolerate the harmful abuse of broad freedoms. Even within the constraints of a democracy, they will find a way to curtail the effects of abused liberty, and that will lead to the erosion of rights and freedoms for all.

So while we can certainly afford that Alex Jones is exercising his First Amendment rights, and that he has not, to my knowledge committed any crime, we must also afford that he is probably the kind of person George Washington was talking about.

There's no reason to think he'll suddenly screw up the balancing act so badly as to expose himself to criminal charges.

No, not intentionally. But if you live your life as a balancing act, sooner or later you'll slip and fall by accident due to some unforeseen factor. His act is inherently precarious, and miscalculations in his position have more dire consequences than for people whose professional life is not the equivalent of bear-bating.
 
What does AJ say that is sooooooo horrible that we would want to criminalize it??

I agree that if free speech is free speech, but he does nothing but spew hate. He claims innocent people are to blame for everything in this country. He will spit in victims face by stating they aren't real.

As Evelyn Beatrice Hall said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
 
I think it's likely the DOJ will bend over backwards to not find a reason to prosecute Alex Jones. It would be a huge propaganda opportunity for him and his followers. In the long run I think it would almost certainly prove counter-productive.

Alex Jones on trial? Imagine the total circus that would be!
 
If one constantly exercises his free speech for the purpose of riling up people, and one of those people says he did what he did at least in part because of Jones' baiting, then how long will a civilized people let that stand? I always turn to George Washington's second inaugural address for guidance on this point. He notes that a free people must necessarily also be a disciplined people because civilization will not tolerate the harmful abuse of broad freedoms. Even within the constraints of a democracy, they will find a way to curtail the effects of abused liberty, and that will lead to the erosion of rights and freedoms for all.

Jay, I don't see that in George Washington's 2nd Inaugural Address (text follows). What inaugural address was it in?

Fellow Citizens:

I am again called upon by the voice of my country to execute the
functions of its Chief Magistrate. When the occasion proper for it shall
arrive, I shall endeavor to express the high sense I entertain of this
distinguished honor, and of the confidence which has been reposed in me
by the people of united America.

Previous to the execution of any official act of the President the
Constitution requires an oath of office. This oath I am now about to
take, and in your presence: That if it shall be found during my
administration of the Government I have in any instance violated
willingly or knowingly the injunctions thereof, I may (besides incurring
constitutional punishment) be subject to the upbraidings of all who are
now witnesses of the present solemn ceremony.

Quoted from http://www.archive.org/stream/uspresidentialin04938gut/inagu11.txt
 
While I understand why Germany and other European nations would want to make Holocaust-denial a crime, this is the United States and we celebrate and embrace diversity of views & opinions even if they are very insulting and offensive.
 

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