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Merged al Megrahi and the Lockerbie bombing

If it had suited the authorities to "prove" that Abu Talb bought those clothes, then Gauci would have identified him for them, just as easily (and probably just as definitely!). They could have built just as good a circumstantial case against him as they did against Megrahi. (The marked calendar, the trip to Malta including 23rd November 1988, the clothes bought in Malta in his flat, the association with Khreesat and Jibril, and so on and so on.)

But it didn't suit the politicians and the spooks. And there are a lot of heavy hints floating around that the CIA had solid evidence that the PFLP-GC did the dirty, but didn't pass this on to the FBI. Instead they leant on Giaka to make stuff up about Megrahi and Fhimah they hoped would hold up in court.

Rolfe.
 
They were wittering on about DNA on the radio this morning while I was getting dressed. Yeah right, they'll get meaningful DNA from the dregs of an explosion that happened over 21 years ago, after the evidence has been trawled over for explosives residues and all sorts - not.


DNA fingerprinting is getting better all the time. Long shot but posible.
 
Yeah, I did rethink that remark after reading some more commentary. If they found DNA belonging to a suspect on something identified as being in the bomb bag, and the world could be convinced it hadn't been planted, it would be a very big deal indeed.

Rolfe.
 
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When new science rather than new thinking is the proposal, expect more abuse of the latest forensic science has to offer.

In the news, Malta's PM denies the rumors of a specific Gauci probe. Prof. Black agrees it's best to hold out for a more all-inclusive UN probe rather than get too narrow. It was Hans Kochler, not Jim Swire, calling specifically for a Gauci-specific probe by Malta.

Our good fiend Juval Aviv is back saying he's got, or knows of, whatever, the "lost" CCTV footage of a Frankfurt handler loading a bown Samsonite onto PA103A. He can't show it to us because of the CIA or something. But he'll also describe the video and audio he has to put it all together
“The video shows a baggage handler called Roland O’Neill,” said Mr Aviv. “He picks up the suitcase and realises it is heavier than usual. He goes to the phone and makes a call.

“Then he takes the case and puts it on the trolley. All the phones were tapped, so I also had a tape of the phone call.

“O’Neill called the CIA guy at the embassy in Bonn. He said, ‘This is O’Neill, I have the suitcase but it is much heavier than usual’. The CIA guy says, ‘Yes, we know, let it go’.”

How on Earth can you deny that kind of total proof that's definitely hidden away somewhere?

PM Gordon Brown has ruled out a more expansive, enabled Lockerbie probe as inappropriate. As Foreign Secretary David Miliband had said, any investigation "should be a matter for the Scots" and no one else. Had the timer ben set differently, it would be a matter for some school of fish out there off Newfoundland.

ETA: And Chomsky speaks!
 
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Why would a suitcase containing a radio-cassette player with 450g of Semtex in it be "much heavier" than a suitcase full of heroin?

That's frankly nuts. The bomb suitcase had the radio-cassette bomb, only 450g of Semtex remember, and rather less in the way of clothes than a normal piece of luggage, by all accounts. It should have been lighter than most suitcases, and certainly lighter than a bag full of heroin, not heavier.

Rolfe.
 
Why would a suitcase containing a radio-cassette player with 450g of Semtex in it be "much heavier" than a suitcase full of heroin?

That's frankly nuts. The bomb suitcase had the radio-cassette bomb, only 450g of Semtex remember, and rather less in the way of clothes than a normal piece of luggage, by all accounts. It should have been lighter than most suitcases, and certainly lighter than a bag full of heroin, not heavier.

Rolfe.

I kind of thought the same thing, but it pales next to the image him actually sitting in some room watching this hidden video, with the secret wiretap audio, and these two guys having just this detailed conversation. And he's the take it to the media just don't bring proof guy anyway, so hidden this crap would not be. My opinion of Mr. Aviv just went up. He's being quite helpful with this new phase, being very up front and clear about his intentions so we can all just happily ignore and keep moving.

However, since a guy was specifically named - unusual specificity - don't be surprised if he surfaces and 'verifies' that's just what happened. Also maybe that won't happen, I dunno.

A lot of back and forth on investigations lately. Apparently there's some kind of widespread interest in or expectation of one, perhaps being tested or tired out.
 
Read Coleman. He describes all that too, same names. And the polygraph interrogations of the baggage handlers.

I have no frickin idea, frankly. I have no idea why Pan Am would employ a fantasist to investigate the affair on their behalf.

It's kind of interesting the number of people who have been smeared and discredited (or against whom attempts have been made to smear and discredit).

Lester Coleman
Allan Frankovich
Juval Aviv
Oswald le Winter
Jim Swire
David ben Aryeah (look at the first comment on this blog entry - the reason why we have to sign in to comment on Robert black's blog now)

Has anyone tried to smear Robert Black or Hans Kochler, I wonder?

BTW, look what I just found. Lesley Riddoch is a highly respected Scottish journalist who for years fronted an excellent politics show on Radio Scotland.

I don't know who's right. But it does seem to work - it doesn't matter if the material is out there, even as a film or a book, if the smearing has been done right it just lies there and only the conspiracy theorists pay any attention to it.

Rolfe.
 
A bit more random stuff here from a detectives tale by John Crawford.
Now this book will certainly not win the Booker prize but...

DCI Crawford was on site early doors 22nd Dec and was involved in body recovery and the search for evidence, they were told on arrival by superiors that "they would be investigating murder on a massive scale" (P27) Someone seem to have come to this conclusion pretty quick or may be DCI Crawford was a bit sleepy and wasn't paying attention perhaps "they could be.." etc

After the searching was over he then became part of the team investigating the autumn leaves files, the timer fragment. He wine and dined Bollier when he came to Scotland for interview. Went to Jordan to assist with Khreeset He also spent alot of time in Malta. He said he was just a small gog etc and was not party to all information just an intrepid plod on the trail.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Nh...dent:+A+Detective's+Tale#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Pages 58 to 63 are interesting as he recounts how he had problems with the production labels and had to go back and find items at Dexstar that had been mislaid.

Page 65 he tells how a DCI Cairns and McColm
"had found a small piece of aluminium in H sector. This turned out to be a piece of the luggage container in which the bomb had exploded and a piece of the timer mechanism had been blasted into the corner of it"

Well here we have another bit of bad memory, assumption whatever as we know that this was actually a piece of the Toshiba radio. Or do we ?

D
 
Probably bad memory. These two bits of circuit board tend to get confused by a lot of people. But I can't believe the Dextar operation was secure - particularly from an insider with nefarious intent.

I just have a bit of a problem with the intent and means being there to plant anything like that timer fragment as early as January.

Rolfe.
 
It seems impossible to provide a plausible way for Megrahi, or anyone for that matter, to have introduced an unaccompanied bag at Luqa Airport on Dec 21 1988. Both the airport and the airline Air Malta would appear to have provided, and to those with expert knowledge on how these airline and baggage systems operate, irrefutable documentation showing it was virtually impossible for a bag to be inserted, and indeed the records of KM180 completely support this conclusion in respect of their passenger and baggage reconciliation on that day. Given this, if there are no arguments to what has been probed and concluded on these threads, then that puts Megrahi, although not necessarily Libya, out of the frame altogether in relation to the charges alleged by the US and UK authorities for his part in the bombing of flight 103.

There is some evidence that unaccompanied bag(s) were loaded onto PanAm 103a in Frankfurt, possible through various means, although it appears from the arguments of the prosecution that, the rouge bag that appears at the station assigned to collect baggage from the Malta flight, had to be the bomb bag. As has been demonstrated on here, that is simply not the case.

The distinct, and lets be honest, questionable lack of official records for Frankfurt handling of baggage, by virtue leaves me highly suspicious of the Erac printout, the reasons for it's initial retainment, and it's subsequently major significance in somehow linking origination of the bomb with the Air Malta flight despite the far more incontrovertible evidence that was made available from the very beginning by Air Malta and Luqa airport authorities. The fact that if indeed the bomb suitcase was introduced either from the KM180 flight, or inserted at the coding station where the baggage arrived from Malta, also ignores the security measures that bag would need to negotiate through the Frankfurt system, where although discrepancies are found in their baggage reconciliation with passengers, their baggage system operators did x-ray all baggage loaded onto PA103a. In addition, the warnings that had been issued and the exposing of the PLFP cell just outside Frankfurt and their Toshiba bombs containing barometric timers, would surely have resulted in a step-up in security around German Airports, especially the baggage areas with the x-ray examiners forewarned about the possible Toshiba Radio disguise.

Perhaps, as has been suggested by a few, there were covert activities in operation at Frankfurt involving 'controlled drug deliveries' and therefore disclosure of all relevant records could have exposed illegal surreptitious operations which could be highly damaging to the US, UK and German governments. To expect that these kinds of covert activities are not operated at State level is unrealistic. The theory of the 'drugs for hostages' deals and the integral part played by Frankfurt and Heathrow put forward by Aviv, Coleman and Francovich is one which carries immeasurable rewards, but clearly also inherently very grave risks for all those involved. I would not completely rule out the possibility of ingestion of the suitcase containing the bomb at Frankfurt, but on the balance of what is known, I tend to think Heathrow the more likely.

The poor security and baggage reconciliation at Heathrow was ably shown by the story given to the court by Bedford and Kamboj, the baggage handlers at Heathrow loading luggage onto 103. Despite Bedfords claim of two suitcases, unknown to him, were placed in the container from which the bomb exploded, and that had been left unguarded at the PanAm gate, the judges then provided novel interpretations of how the bags Bedford viewed could not be the bomb simply because of extraneous positioning claims, when the most patent evidence that a rogue samsonite suitcase had been introduced at Heathrow was compelling.

The break-in at Heathrow, at the PanAm gate no-less, reported so soon after it occurred by Ray Manley, seems to have been simply cast aside by the police who recorded it. This despite a PanAm plane being blown out of the sky later that same day. Even more disturbingly, it seems there was a concerted effort to conceal this breach of security until it finally became known only at the first appeal by Megrahi in 2002. Why on earth would information like that be suppressed? It becomes even more perturbing given what we now know of the, in comparison, scant evidence pertaining to security at Luqa and with Air Malta. Great effort has seemingly been made to either conceal or divert any attention away from the more substantial and significant areas of evidence which exist at Heathrow and Frankfurt in favour of the more fanciful and indeed preposterous notions as laid out by the prosecution case that Luqa Airport, and therefore Megrahi, were instrumental in the bombing of flight 103.

Perhaps, if there was a 'controlled delivery' in operation incorporating the DEA (under the auspices of the CIA), the German BKA and British MI6 on 21 dec, using Frankfurt and Heathrow Airport, then we have good reason for those agencies to steer the investigation away from those areas. Better still, the loss of all records and any evidence which does come to light is either ignored, or if possible must point the investigators in another direction entirely? Perhaps the first assumption made was that the attack on 103 had utilised the controlled delivery to insert a bomb? My own thoughts have drifted towards two operations (the drug sting and the attack on 103) as entirely separate. The covert operation happening from Frankfurt, while the bomb suitcase was inserted at Heathrow. Perhaps with the knowledge of a covert drug operation, any group wanting to bring down an Airline, would know to inflict their attack during this operation would present any government or investigators with a real dilemma?

The loss of documentation from Frankfurt obscures any real conclusive evidence of anything untoward, or legitimate, taking place at that airport, while the suppression of the break-in and the apparent gaping holes in security at Heathrow together with the Bedford suitcase are just quietly (hopefully) and discreetly ignored as though not noteworthy far less worth further investigation? Given the intelligence on Khreesat's devices, and the public knowledge that the BKA had simply released the 'caught red-handed' bomb-maker Khreesat back to Jordan, it would be imperative that any evidence discovered and any investigation instigated, should not be allowed to dig too far into this - for it would be absolutely obvious to everyone that this would be the most likely course of inquiry and Khreesat the clear suspect - and would be the first focus of any investigation.

I have a VHS copy of the Maltese Double Cross taken from it's one and only public showing on UK's channel 4 in 1995. I really should endeavour to have this transferred and uploaded, if not for making a slightly better copy available online, then for the 'Lockerbie Debate' that was broadcast immediately after the film, which I also recorded. The discussion, primarily focussing on the film's assertions, included Allan Francovich, Jim Swire, Jim Duggan (representing US families), David Leppard (Sunday Times) and Oliver 'Buck' Revell who headed the FBI investigation prior to Richard Marquise. The discussion made for fascinating viewing reaching a dramatic point when Jim Swire probed Oliver Revell on the fact his son had been booked on Pan Am 103 only to change and fly home on a different date. Swire asked quite bluntly if this had been as a result of the warnings that were made known to many US diplomats, or whether Revell had any prior knowledge of a possible attack on 103. Revell confirmed the change by his son but that this was simply due to a change in his son's work commitments with the US military in Germany and had no connection to any warnings.

All aspects of the Lockerbie disaster deserve close attention, and there are some aspects which deserve the particular attention of Americans and the British such as those examined on here. These will not be addressed by people and press elsewhere. These topics, the ones that are close to home - literally in our backyard - that have been most abysmally ignored or covered up by the US and UK media. There are a few lone voices on both sides of the Atlantic, who are either dismissed as some sort of nutty CT's, or who's cries of foul play by the government slowly fade away isolated in a lonely dark corner. As Flora Swire's fiancé, Hart Lidov said in his highly critical article written for the Columbia Journalism Review on the tenth anniversary of the disaster, "it is unrealistic to suppose that they (those who ordered the bombing) will ever be held accountable. Khomeni, Mohtashemi, Assad, and Khaddaffi did not take an oath of office to protect us - officials of the US government did."

He continued, "In the case of Lockerbie there are innumerable theories, no indisputable proof that any one is correct, and no reason to assume that situation will change at any specific time in the future. Thus any discussion that is predicated on knowing who precisely carried out the bombing is essentially a dead end. The answer may be known by the intelligence services of any of several countries, but it may not be. If it is, there is no reason to expect that it will be divulged except as it suits other political purposes in what may be a very long fullness of time. In the absence of this information are there questions that the press could have addressed - yes, lots of them. Who had an interest in seeing the Pan Am 103 bombing succeed? What do the few facts have become public since Dec. 21 1988 add up to? Did the US security services take appropriate actions in light of what was known? What can be inferred was known based on actions - as opposed to public statements about “what was known”? None of these questions have been addressed by American journalists, or if they have it is in the manner of Michael Wines of the NY Times who like a weathercock points in which ever direction the State Department is blowing, or Steve Emerson, whose continued relationship with Oliver Revell (at least as late as Emerson's WSJ article “Stop Aid and Comfort for Patrons of Terror” 8/5/96) make his reporting of a story in which Revell may in fact be a central culprit, unreliable."

In short, Lidov's claim was not only one of culpability on the part of the US security services, but specifically of Revell and the grave assertion of complicity in bombing. Indeed, Revell so incensed by the allegations made by Lidov, he made application to the US court claiming defamation of character, which was ultimately lost. However, given it's sensitive nature, and time that has elapsed, the full article is very hard to track down, and even although I do have a copy, I don't feel it would be in the best interests of the forum for me to post it in full. Anyone wishing to read the full article, pm me and I will oblige.
 
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Probably bad memory. These two bits of circuit board tend to get confused by a lot of people. But I can't believe the Dextar operation was secure - particularly from an insider with nefarious intent.

I just have a bit of a problem with the intent and means being there to plant anything like that timer fragment as early as January.


Realdon, I've been reading that, and it's more complicated than I thought. I've taken it to the MST-13 thread.

Rolfe.
 
I have a VHS copy of the Maltese Double Cross taken from it's one and only public showing on UK's channel 4 in 1995. I really should endeavour to have this transferred and uploaded, if not for making a slightly better copy available online, then for the 'Lockerbie Debate' that was broadcast immediately after the film, which I also recorded. The discussion, primarily focussing on the film's assertions, included Allan Francovich, Jim Swire, Jim Duggan (representing US families), David Leppard (Sunday Times) and Oliver 'Buck' Revell who headed the FBI investigation prior to Richard Marquise. The discussion made for fascinating viewing reaching a dramatic point when Jim Swire probed Oliver Revell on the fact his son had been booked on Pan Am 103 only to change and fly home on a different date. Swire asked quite bluntly if this had been as a result of the warnings that were made known to many US diplomats, or whether Revell had any prior knowledge of a possible attack on 103. Revell confirmed the change by his son but that this was simply due to a change in his son's work commitments with the US military in Germany and had no connection to any warnings.

That does sound like excellent viewing. The movie itself is so long, and IMO the copy we have is acceptable, so that's a time-payoff issue, but the after-talk... I didn't even get what Revell's connection was until now - he was the pre-Marquise! (and looking at Lidov now). If you think it's a valuable addition, someone with a video input card could do it easily. I recommend almost any format aside from WMA, perhaps different resolutions - one pro-quality for later, one smaller for uploading. Anyway, excellent post altogether, lotta thoughts.
 
The Channel 4 version was cut down to only 90 minutes. Could you lose a whole hour without damaging the informaton? But the after-chat sounds fascinating. The trouble is, though, that it so seldom settles anything. Oh, so Revell's son's job forced him to change flights? "Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?" Could be perfectly true. Doesn't have to be though.

I didn't see it at the time. Rats. Could have got a Super-Betamax copy, which was the best picture quality you could get at the time - not that dissimilar to a CD on a bog-standard telly. Oh well. I'd sure like to see that discussion.

Rolfe.
 
Buncrana, my thinking is very much tending in the same direction as yours on this. (Which is why I keep trying to knock down that timer fragment, because it doesn't fit with a heathrow introduction.)

I think a lot of what you say about Frankfurt is more appropriate in the "unaccompanied bag" thread, so I hope you don't mind if I take part of your post over there.

I'm slowly making a better transcript of The Maltese Double Cross. The online one is a decent start, but it's got a lot of errors and omissions, and you can't navigate it as it only has one-page-on buttons. I thought we might then try to annotate it with whatever we've managed to establish, or reasonably speculate, about particular passages. But just a PDF of the transcript would be handy.

Rolfe.
 
All aspects of the Lockerbie disaster deserve close attention, and there are some aspects which deserve the particular attention of Americans and the British such as those examined on here. These will not be addressed by people and press elsewhere. These topics, the ones that are close to home - literally in our backyard - that have been most abysmally ignored or covered up by the US and UK media. There are a few lone voices on both sides of the Atlantic, who are either dismissed as some sort of nutty CT's, or who's cries of foul play by the government slowly fade away isolated in a lonely dark corner.


This touches on something I've been ruminating about. In 1988 the internet was barely a foetus. Nobody could have imagined the form it would take, or that within 20 years anyone with a modem and a phone line would be able to access humungous reams of evidence and discussion without leaving their desk.

But it goes further than that. The development of this sort of public discussion is even more recent. The ability of the internet to bring together people with a common interest to discuss all sorts of matters is an amazing sociological phenomenon. I already have my name on Letters to the Editor in scientific journals, as a co-author with other forum members I have never met, letters entirely written on this forum. A number of such groups was responsible for shredding an entire issue of the journal Homeopathy, on the subject of "the memory of water". Without the internet, it's probable nobody but homoeopaths would even have known the articles existed, never mind read them. Alone, maybe none of us would have bothered to do any more than sound off in private for ten minutes. Alone, maybe none of us would have been able to dissect these papers quite as forensically as was achieved. Collaborating, it was accomplished.

This forum is almost a unique resource in that respect - certainly for CT-related issues, I think. ("Bad Science" is also pretty hot on the SCAM merchants.) Look at what's been done in the field of 9/11. There is a critical mass of posters who have the evidence and the couter-arguments to the nonsense at their fingertips. We've done moon hoaxing and Kennedy and Rosewell and contrails and alien livestock mutilations as well.

If you look at my OP on this thread, you'll see that I came here looking for a similar forensic dissection of the events surrounding Lockerbie. I didn't find a thing. The thread petered out in less than a page. It was suggested that I should become the forum expert. I took a look at the height of the mountain, and declined (at the time).

However, we're now close to a critical mass of interested posters bouncing ideas around, keeping each other on track, and correcting misconceptions, to have the possibility to achieve something. We'll never prove anything, but even providing a balanced look at the evidence and some reasonable interpretations would be a start.

I just want to know what I think. I want to have an opinion, and I want that opinion to be as closely aligned to the known facts as possible. People like us didn't really exist even ten years ago. We couldn't have been conceived of 20 years ago. Is it possible for people like us to contribute to a critical mass that eventually changes perceptions?

I think it's worth a go.

Rolfe.
 
This touches on something I've been ruminating about. In 1988 the internet was barely a foetus. Nobody could have imagined the form it would take, or that within 20 years anyone with a modem and a phone line would be able to access humungous reams of evidence and discussion without leaving their desk.

But it goes further than that. The development of this sort of public discussion is even more recent. The ability of the internet to bring together people with a common interest to discuss all sorts of matters is an amazing sociological phenomenon. I already have my name on Letters to the Editor in scientific journals, as a co-author with other forum members I have never met, letters entirely written on this forum. A number of such groups was responsible for shredding an entire issue of the journal Homeopathy, on the subject of "the memory of water". Without the internet, it's probable nobody but homoeopaths would even have known the articles existed, never mind read them. Alone, maybe none of us would have bothered to do any more than sound off in private for ten minutes. Alone, maybe none of us would have been able to dissect these papers quite as forensically as was achieved. Collaborating, it was accomplished.

This forum is almost a unique resource in that respect - certainly for CT-related issues, I think. ("Bad Science" is also pretty hot on the SCAM merchants.) Look at what's been done in the field of 9/11. There is a critical mass of posters who have the evidence and the couter-arguments to the nonsense at their fingertips. We've done moon hoaxing and Kennedy and Rosewell and contrails and alien livestock mutilations as well.

If you look at my OP on this thread, you'll see that I came here looking for a similar forensic dissection of the events surrounding Lockerbie. I didn't find a thing. The thread petered out in less than a page. It was suggested that I should become the forum expert. I took a look at the height of the mountain, and declined (at the time).

However, we're now close to a critical mass of interested posters bouncing ideas around, keeping each other on track, and correcting misconceptions, to have the possibility to achieve something. We'll never prove anything, but even providing a balanced look at the evidence and some reasonable interpretations would be a start.

I just want to know what I think. I want to have an opinion, and I want that opinion to be as closely aligned to the known facts as possible. People like us didn't really exist even ten years ago. We couldn't have been conceived of 20 years ago. Is it possible for people like us to contribute to a critical mass that eventually changes perceptions?

I think it's worth a go.

Rolfe.

Yes, I have often wondered why exactly the whole disaster in Lockerbie, the subsequent enquiry and the resulting court case, never really entered the public's psyche, as many other dramatic historical events, especially those involving mass murder, aimed at in the main, the US. The lack of knowledge about the whole tragedy in the UK is astounding, given the proximity of the disaster and the relatively wide coverage it has received in the media. Admittedly, usually a very subjective media and that which suppports the official investigation and court judgement on Megrahi steadfastly.

These forums, and the collective voices they are capable of bringing together to discuss the vast array of topics is indeed as you say, an "amazing sociological phenomenon". I have often tried in vain to broach the subject of Lockerbie, from social circles, professionally and on other forums, and was all too often met with silence or simple indifference. As I said in my first post, the discussion on here has been reasoned, conversant and objective. It has without doubt provided me with much more knowledge about the events and the evidence of the case, than I previously did over nearly 15 years of following the case. Although, I remember exactly where I was when I heard the news about 103 going down over Lockerbie, it was only while on a visit to Windsor in 1994, that purely by chance I came across a copy of Trail of the Octopus, and decided it looked, more that anything, curious. After reading it, I followed events much more closely.

Questioning oneself was constant, while looking to support one's position with evidence. In the case of Lockerbie, it is undoubtedly a complex weave of many facets where evidence can be found, but, I for one, think you deserve immense credit for persisting in trying to uncover these facts. As you say, who could have possibly imagined 20 years ago, the capabilities that the internet would allow, let alone forums such as this. We are making balanced conclusions on what we do know, and yes I absolutely believe, perceptions can be changed. To what degree, and with what outcomes, is another matter I think.
 
Actually, I think the opinion that "Megrahi was framed" is fairly widespread in Scotland. If for no other reason than that every time it's mentioned it prompts a rash of letters to the Editor and opinion articles from respected journalists saying so. However, not many people are very conversant with the details, and the official line is simply to pretend these opinions don't exist.

Rolfe.
 
As Flora Swire's fiancé, Hart Lidov said in his highly critical article written for the Columbia Journalism Review on the tenth anniversary of the disaster, "it is unrealistic to suppose that they (those who ordered the bombing) will ever be held accountable. Khomeni, Mohtashemi, Assad, and Khaddaffi did not take an oath of office to protect us - officials of the US government did."

He continued, "In the case of Lockerbie there are innumerable theories, no indisputable proof that any one is correct, and no reason to assume that situation will change at any specific time in the future. Thus any discussion that is predicated on knowing who precisely carried out the bombing is essentially a dead end. The answer may be known by the intelligence services of any of several countries, but it may not be. If it is, there is no reason to expect that it will be divulged except as it suits other political purposes in what may be a very long fullness of time. In the absence of this information are there questions that the press could have addressed - yes, lots of them. Who had an interest in seeing the Pan Am 103 bombing succeed? What do the few facts have become public since Dec. 21 1988 add up to? Did the US security services take appropriate actions in light of what was known? What can be inferred was known based on actions - as opposed to public statements about “what was known”? None of these questions have been addressed by American journalists, or if they have it is in the manner of Michael Wines of the NY Times who like a weathercock points in which ever direction the State Department is blowing, or Steve Emerson, whose continued relationship with Oliver Revell (at least as late as Emerson's WSJ article “Stop Aid and Comfort for Patrons of Terror” 8/5/96) make his reporting of a story in which Revell may in fact be a central culprit, unreliable."

In short, Lidov's claim was not only one of culpability on the part of the US security services, but specifically of Revell and the grave assertion of complicity in bombing. Indeed, Revell so incensed by the allegations made by Lidov, he made application to the US court claiming defamation of character, which was ultimately lost. However, given it's sensitive nature, and time that has elapsed, the full article is very hard to track down, and even although I do have a copy, I don't feel it would be in the best interests of the forum for me to post it in full. Anyone wishing to read the full article, pm me and I will oblige.


Thanks for the link Buncrana. As it's just a link I'm not sure why you don't want to post it, but I'll respect your decision.

I never really thought about who Flora Swire's boyfriend was (were they actually engaged?), and I didn't know he was a journalist or a Lockerbie "truther". That's an interesting page altogether.

However, I note that Mr. Lidov falls into that oft-repeated fallacy that PA103 was late on the fateful evening.

Hart Lidov said:
In fact there was the completely unpredictable turn that take off from Heathrow was delayed by an hour, the plane took a longer than usual course over dry land, reaching the preset altitude over Lockerbie, and resulting in all of that awkward evidence for examination - the one thing that Revell and company did not expect, a large amount of forensically examinable material.


It really wasn't. PA103A was late, and the baggage handlers had to move fast to get Maid of the Seas loaded from the Frankfurt jet, but they made it. (As far as I can tell, the Frankfurt baggage wasn't x-rayed at this point. Was this because of the short time, or would it not have been normal practice anyway? Would they have found anything if they had x-rayed it?)

PA103 was scheduled to depart at 6pm. The plane pushed off from the gate a minute or two after six. This is "on time" by anybody's standards. Planes do not, ever, leave the tarmac at their scheduled departure time. They have to taxi to the end of the runway, wait for instructions, and then make their take-off run before they leave the ground. How long does this normally take? Ten minutes? Fifteen?

PA103 left the ground at 6.25pm. That is ten to fifteen minutes late at the most. Even without that negligible (in the context of a transatlantic flight) delay, and even if the plane had taken a more southerly course, it would not and could not have been "far out over the Atlantic" (as others have suggested) when it exploded.

So what's this about the "pre-set altitude"? That pre-supposes a barometric device, not the timer-only device postulated at Camp Zeist. With a barmoetric device it doesn't matter a damn how long the plane is delayed, it will always explode the same time after take-off. So the (erroneous) comment about the time delay is actually a total irrelevance.

What he really seems to be saying is that it was the unusually northerly route that caused the over-land explosion, nothing to do with the delay. That could be quite true, but whichever way you slice it, an explosion only 38 minutes after take-off is chancing it. It could have hit Ireland.

It's a timing that makes sense if what you're relying on is one of those primitive analogue timers which could only be set for a maximum delay of 30 minutes (Khreesat's modus operandi). You know you're going to get an explosion at 30,000 feet, you kind of hope it might be over the sea to destroy the evidence, but you're willing to risk bits of plane being scattered all over the countryside if that's how it pans out.

It doesn't make sense if you have the opportunity to set a longer delay.

The way Lidov presents his argument is quite confused and contradictory, and makes me wonder just how clearly he's thinking about all this. Maybe not so much?

By the way, the "the US authorities knew about PA103 in advance and allowed it to happen so as to allow Iran to level the score for the Airbus" theory has been advanced more publicly than that. Tam Daylell put it forward in a newspaper article quite recently.

I don't think I'm prepared to believe that US personnel would let an aircraft full of innocent civilians take off, knowing it was going to blow up, and do nothing about it. I suppose we have to add it to the list of theories though.

Rolfe.
 
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November 20, Friday, was the day Megrahi had to die by for Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill to avert a fresh row. It has passed and Megrahi lives a bit longer still. Was there a deal? Did they actually know he'd likely live significantly longer than three months?

Oddly, I suspect such a deal. The evidence is he dropped his appeal just after talking in private with MacAskill (a first, I hear) before getting that diagnosis and then, per law, going home. After all, you want something, like an appeal dropped, wouldn't it help to offer something - like an extra month, say - in return? Like water for a thirsty man, life for a dying man is an irresistable lure. It can give you much leverage if you're low or desperate enough to use it...

Speaking of firsts, my reason in bumping, asides from marking the 3-month point, is this neat little list of firsts from a site that makes me feel less clandestine for having the whole trial transcripts now (news later):
6 From the running list of "firsts" which we maintain on the web-site: "The Lockerbie trial has been said to be: 1) the first time that the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency has provided documentary evidence to a foreign court, and the first time that it has permitted a former intelligence source to testify in a trial on foreign soil; 2) the first time that LiveNote (http://www.livenote.com) software has been used in a Scottish court to produce simultaneous transcripts; 3) the largest mass murder in Scottish legal history; 4) the first time a Scottish court has sat abroad; 5) the first time in Scottish legal history that serious criminal charges have been tried without a jury; 6) the most expensive and possibly the longest trial in Scottish legal history, employing the largest prosecution and investigation team without even including US Department of Justice personnel; 7) the first time that the United Nations Security Council has pressured a state, through economic sanctions, to surrender its nationals for trial abroad; 8) the first time that a national civilian court has ever conducted an entire criminal trial in the territory of another sovereign country; and 9) held in what is quite possibly the most secure and most high-tech courthouse ever built."
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/lessons/lesoct00.htm
 

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