Al Franken and satire

[headscratcher4]

No. He has made a prosperous career out of cussing out folks who his fans don't like.

More power to him if he can make money that way, but it's still not funny.

No, as a comic writer. He had a long career as a writer/performer on Saturday Night live. He has been in movies and written screenplays. THe more political version of his humor is a more recent -- last 10 to 15 years.

But, ultimately, isn't that what political humor is? I mean, doesn't Dennis Miller, for example, get laughs with political humor "cussing" out folks who his fans don't like? Is Miller less of a comedian because his fans, now, tend to be more "republican"? Is his satire less or more satire because he supports the powers that be?

Though I disagree with his political views of late, I still think Miller quite funny. I find Franken can get tiresome, but I still see him as a comedy writer.

My point is, that political humor, like all humor, depends on context, experience, bias, etc. It is, in the eye/ear of the beholder. Because you don't happen to find it funny, doesn't mean that other don't or that the deliverer isn't a "comedian".

I am not sure what I am saying, but like all political humor, Franken tends to be most funny to those who agree with his premises and bias...that is the nature of the beast, it seems to me.

 

[Upchurch]

Just finnished this book today.

Personally I know next to nothing about politics. I found the book very interesting and a good peek in. Certainly lowers my opinion of many people, not that I had a high opinion of Bush and crew to begin with.

So Upchurch, what do you think after finnishing it?

I'm with headscratcher4 in that Franken is really just a political humorist with his own political bias. However, I still think that Franken is much more honest and up front in his arguments and where he is coming from than his conservative counterparts, except for P.J. O'Rourke, who I still haven't read and know next to nothing about but have heard good things.

I think one of the things that really endears Franken to me is that, although the subject matter is different, he uses approximately the same argumentative technique I try to use when I have the time. He uses critical analysis of specific quotes against demostrable facts and references. I've never read Coulter or heard O'Reilly and Hannity do this. I could at least respect their views/opinions if they did.

Although on the mean side, I did find their "investigation" of the Christian college rather amusing, in a perverse little way.

 

[fishbob]

Al Franken isn't a satirist, he's an insult comedian like Don Rickles.

Abdul, you must be thinking of somebody else.

[Stewart Smalley voice] Darn it, people like me. You hockey puck.

 

[Frank Newgent]

Why hasn't anyone pointed out the resemblence between Al Franken and Ernesto Miranda?

I find Franken's take-no-prisoners
unrestrained comic hooks arresting.

 

[headscratcher4]

he's an insult comedian like Don Rickles.

And, while I've never been a Rickles fan, he is considered by most to be a "comedian" and a "comic actor."

My point is that you may not like either Rickles or Franken's "comic" stylings, but the fact that you don't (or I don't) doesn't make them a comic, especially if they self describe that way -- which I bet they do. The surest way to end a comic career is to not get laughs...and both seem to be getting laughs. So, methinks that makes them comics.


Also, it really would be difficult to consider "franken" an insult comedian, a'la Rickles. Rickles has never been very high on either irony or subtlety. Franken, especially in his "political" humor mode, has relied almost completely on both...the humor rests in turning the words of the oposition against their original point in an ironic fashion. Yes, there are insults, but it doesn't drive the point of the bit...and, it isn't the sort of cheap stereotyping ethnic insults that Rickles uses...it can be nasty but it isn't driven by ethnic insensitiveness rather by hypocracy.

 

[Ed]

I honestly thought about waiting untill the second printing so I could see what Franken said about O'Reilly's lawsuit. Great satire material there.

O'Reilly's lawsuit? Musta missed that.

 

[Upchurch]

O'Reilly's lawsuit? Musta missed that.

Technically, it was Fox New's lawsuit, but general concensus is that O'Reilly spear headed it. However, after the suit was laughed out of court, O'Reilly tried to distance himself from it personally in classic spin-master style.

 

[corplinx]

The funniest Franken bits I've seen were his early comedy specials. Some of the writing he did for SNL was obviously funny.

I think the contention that Franken isn't funny is just nonsense. His performance at Rob Reiner's roast was great (even though his performance at Chase's roast was sub-par).

 

[headscratcher4]

If you've not heard it, his speech at the University of Wisconsin, Madison on the whole Fox thing is also very funny...

 

[Snide]

Technically, it was Fox New's lawsuit, but general concensus is that O'Reilly spear headed it. However, after the suit was laughed out of court, O'Reilly tried to distance himself from it personally in classic spin-master style.

And lest someone think you are saying that figurateively, I offer this article.

You may have to sign up, but it's worth it (IMO).

From the article:

Q: I didn't realize the lawsuit moved up the release of the book. What was the thinking there?


A: To take advantage of the enormous publicity that was generated by their dumbass lawsuit and our subsequent victory in court. Fox was literally laughed out of court. Now usually when you say someone was literally laughed out of court, you mean they were figuratively laughed out of court. Not in this case. People came from miles around to see this historic First Amendment case and laughed throughout the hearing.

 

[Zero]

WHat I find is funny is that the criticism of Franken from the right-wing basically rests on two points: he is mean-spirited, and he is not funny. No one on the right seems to be willing to tackle the facts...maybe because they simply can't attack Franken's book on its factual content?

And, as far as Franken and O'Reilly being similar, all I can say is that at least Franken doesn't pretend to be a journalist onn a cable 'news' channel. Also, Franken actually won the Emmys that he claims to have, unlike O'Reilly's Peabodys that he didn't win and lied about.

 

[Marc]

I certainly wouldn't object to good satire poking the failings of librals. I'm sure there is plenty of material out there. But it would have to be based on the facts, which Franken's book appears to be.

and I did find the book to be funny

 

[Luke T.]

I saw Franken on Saturday Night Live a long time ago. He usually appeared with a sidekick whose name I forget. I used to think they were stupid and unfunny.

I've never cared for Franken's humor or political view. I don't find him unfunny because he is a liberal, though. There are plenty of liberal pundits who have made me laugh.

Fox screwed up bigtime by suing Franken. For two reasons. The first being that suing him over a phrase is unbelievably stupid and so contrary to free speech it boggles the mind. The second is that Franken has always been a bit of a nobody until now. Fox just elevated him by calling attention to him. They sold his books for him.

 

[Snide]

I saw Franken on Saturday Night Live a long time ago. He usually appeared with a sidekick whose name I forget. I used to think they were stupid and unfunny.

I've never cared for Franken's humor or political view. I don't find him unfunny because he is a liberal, though. There are plenty of liberal pundits who have made me laugh.

Fox screwed up bigtime by suing Franken. For two reasons. The first being that suing him over a phrase is unbelievably stupid and so contrary to free speech it boggles the mind. The second is that Franken has always been a bit of a nobody until now. Fox just elevated him by calling attention to him. They sold his books for him.

Tom Davis.

They were excellent in "Trading Places."

Their gimmick once was, "The comedy team that weighs the same."

They told Letterman one night, "We were at the carnival, and when the weight guesser saw us, he fell off his chair!"



edited to correct spelling

 

[Snide]

The second is that Franken has always been a bit of a nobody until now.

As compared with Limbaugh et al as a political influence, which I think you meant, then yes. Otherwise no.

edited to add "et al"

 

[Zero]

For those of you who don't like Franken's humor, go out and get Joe Conason's latest book, Big Lies, which lays out the same facts in a drier fashion.

 

[Tricky]

For those of you who don't like Franken's humor, go out and get Joe Conason's latest book, Big Lies, which lays out the same facts in a drier fashion.

And if you want fact-filled and funny, check out Molly Ivins' Bushwhacked (co-written with Lou Dubose). Molly is a full-time political columnist and is justifiably proud of usually getting it right, though I have seen her print corrections something I have seen few columnists do, at least in their own columns. (They usually let the newspaper handle it.)

But her writing style is wonderfully folksy but sarcastic, without going strictly for laughs, as Franken does.

(And for the record, the funniest thing Franken was ever in was The Rutles, though he only had a bit part.

 

[Skeptic]

WHat I find is funny is that the criticism of Franken from the right-wing basically rests on two points: he is mean-spirited, and he is not funny.

Unlike the right-wing pundits, famous for their sense of humor and benevolence towards those who disagree with them, I suppose.

 

[Tricky]

Unlike the right-wing pundits, famous for their sense of humor and benevolence towards those who disagree with them, I suppose.

Um... did you mean left-wing pundits, or are you just reiterating Zero's point?

 

[Dorian Gray]

Um.... no, the statements stand like they are.