African Elephant Populations in Rapid Decline

Puppycow

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African Elephant Population Declines By 30 Percent

That is between 2007 and 2014. In terms of absolute numbers, the population declined by 144,000 animals in just seven years. I don't know about you but to me, a 30% decline in just seven years seems very alarming.

And the reason appears to be none other than poaching:

Much of the decline in the elephant population is due to illegal poaching by people who sell elephant tusks on the Chinese market, as NPR has reported. Past estimates of how many elephants are illegally killed were based on models and incomplete carcass counts, as opposed to comparing population numbers. The new survey finds tens of thousands of elephants are being killed each year.
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If we could somehow end that practice, maybe the populations could recover, but look what has happened to the rhinos: one whole species of rhinos is now effectively extinct. A very few individuals remain but they appear to be past the age where they might produce offspring.

BTW, there were previous threads about elephants here and here, but I decided it's better to just start a new one.
 
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marplots said:
I'm pro elephant, but what's the right number?
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Not sure there is a "right" number. Certainly more than the minimum possible for the species to continue. If the population is reduced by 30% in 7 years I think that means that too many are being killed.

I'm also concerned that poaching pressures might affect Elephant evolution. Perhaps in the future they will evolve into tuskless or smaller-tusked versions of what they are now since the ones with the biggest tusks tend to be targeted.
 
A pity though it is, I doubt elephants will get the chance to adapt into a smaller species.
I suspect they will go extinct, maybe even in my lifetime.

Looking at it from the future earth will have gone trough another mass extinction event where species larger than a certain size and most predators were out-competed by a superpredator.
 
SashatheMagnificent said:
instead of just writing and complaining here, maybe we should do something about it right/
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What do you suggest? This is a problem entirely in the hands of the Chinese. They could stop this slaughter tomorrow with a bit of effort. China has taken over vast swathes of Africa, and regards its natural resources as a fair return for their investment in infrastructure. You get to hear about ivory, and rhino horn (which is more of a Vietnamese problem), but you don't get to hear about the enormous illegal timber theft. Because of the disparity in economic power, and the easy corruptability of African governments, the answer to this problem is not in Africa.

So, tell me, what is Joe Public in the west supposed to do to get the Chinese to behave differently?
 
MikeG said:
Because of the disparity in economic power, and the easy corruptability of African governments, the answer to this problem is not in Africa.

So, tell me, what is Joe Public in the west supposed to do to get the Chinese to behave differently?
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Yep, and it's hard not to despair. Even when the Chinese government banned the use of tiger parts in traditional Chinese 'medicine' the practice of it just went underground and the poaching ploughed ahead. And the massive growth in the numbers of Chinese who are both affluent and ignorant is the scary part.
 
They do take up a lot of space relative to usefulness --- only zoo rides and moving wood that I can think of . I am all for more nice and pretty animals like Leopards and Gazelles .
 
Somebody needs to invent a new mythical dick pill so the Chinese and Viet markets will fixate on that instead. Two species about to go extinct all for male pride. Humans: the shameless dicks of planetary history.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Somebody needs to invent a new mythical dick pill so the Chinese and Viet markets will fixate on that instead. Two species about to go extinct all for male pride. Humans: the shameless dicks of planetary history.
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Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12
 
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MikeG said:
What do you suggest? This is a problem entirely in the hands of the Chinese. They could stop this slaughter tomorrow with a bit of effort. China has taken over vast swathes of Africa, and regards its natural resources as a fair return for their investment in infrastructure. You get to hear about ivory, and rhino horn (which is more of a Vietnamese problem), but you don't get to hear about the enormous illegal timber theft. Because of the disparity in economic power, and the easy corruptability of African governments, the answer to this problem is not in Africa.

So, tell me, what is Joe Public in the west supposed to do to get the Chinese to behave differently?
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The average Joe Public in the West has already done a lot to destroy their own environment and now they cry fiul when the CHinese are just starting to do the same

GlennB said:
Yep, and it's hard not to despair. Even when the Chinese government banned the use of tiger parts in traditional Chinese 'medicine' the practice of it just went underground and the poaching ploughed ahead. And the massive growth in the numbers of Chinese who are both affluent and ignorant is the scary part.
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Where are the US Dusky Seaside Sparrow, Glenn?
There were millions or so in the US right?
 
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SashatheMagnificent said:
The average Joe Public in the West has already done a lot to destroy their own environment and now they cry fiul when the CHinese are just starting to do the same......
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Yes, absolutely true. That, however, doesn't address my response to your suggestion that we do something more than just sit around and type something on the internet. So, I ask again, what exactly do you suggest we do?
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Somebody needs to invent a new mythical dick pill so the Chinese and Viet markets will fixate on that instead. Two species about to go extinct all for male pride.......
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You're mixing two things up. Ivory is nothing whatever to do with "dicks" (virility, impotence, whatever).
 
SashatheMagnificent said:
The average Joe Public in the West has already done a lot to destroy their own environment and now they cry fiul when the CHinese are just starting to do the same
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Correct.

SashatheMagnificent said:
Where are the US Dusky Seaside Sparrow, Glenn?
There were millions or so in the US right?
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Yes, we trashed their breeding grounds.

Neither of your points in any way excuses the current blind ignorance of those who believe that rhino horn or tiger bone or whatever will cure their cancer or their erectile dysfunction.

You invoked the classic tu quoque fallacy.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
I'm not one of the confused buyers who so believe.
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It isn't the ivory that is supposedly imbued with any special powers around virility. Sometimes the figures that are carved from ivory are seen as helpful in that respect, but mostly not. Ivory purchases in China are not about virility, but about status and a display of wealth.
 
SashatheMagnificent said:
The average Joe Public in the West has already done a lot to destroy their own environment and now they cry fiul when the CHinese are just starting to do the same



Where are the US Dusky Seaside Sparrow, Glenn?
There were millions or so in the US right?
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Just starting? The Chinese have been trashing their environment for at least as long as everybody else.
And "You did It so I can too." isn't always the most persuasive argument.
But thats fine just continue to ignore the question.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
 
They were all right when they danced and juggled and blew water over you .But now they are just boring . The planet has shed millions of species including plants etc . I am sure things will not be any worse for the loss of Elephants .With AI and Robots progressing rapidly , I feel sure we can improve on those ugly pachyderms .
 
Malbec said:
They were all right when they danced and juggled and blew water over you .But now they are just boring . The planet has shed millions of species including plants etc . I am sure things will not be any worse for the loss of Elephants .With AI and Robots progressing rapidly , I feel sure we can improve on those ugly pachyderms .
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It's a keystone species, specifically of the type Ecosystem Engineers Species, so you can be sure it will be much worse, causing a huge continent wide trophic cascade. In fact it is happening already. You may have heard about the increase in thorny brush species that are causing cheetahs to go blind, which not only endangers them but also causes a change in antelope numbers, which also effects plant species abundance, and so the chain continues... even effecting and being affected by climate change in a reinforcing feedback... The highly nuanced and complex interconnectedness of Elephants in so many African ecosystems is pretty well documented. Such that early attempts at culling Elephants to save parks stressed by drought actually counter-intuitively had the opposite of the intended effect. Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change
 
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