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Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS

volatile

Scholar and a Gentleman
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
6,729
Just about the most vitriolic piece of cruel, immoral invective idiocy I've seen in a good long while.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...thing-to-anyone--apart-from-aids-1430428.html

The guy lost all respect for what little argument he may have had at "Japan, China, Russia, Korea, Poland, Germany, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in the 20th century have endured worse broad brush-strokes than almost any part of Africa.", which is beyond nonsense. I'm kinda sympathetic to his general point -- that perhaps giving money to Africa isn't necessarily the best way to solve it's entrenched problems -- but when you come out with sentences like "Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS", it becomes impossible to take seriously.

Thoughts?
 
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

Chinese Proverb
 
There are success stories in Africa, Botswana being a good one.

It's important to point out that it took a long time for western civilization to get to the point it's at. We went from roaming bands and tribes to small independent fiefdoms, to empires, spilled rivers of blood over pretty much everything imaginable, and only through a gradual upwelling of reason and scholarship were we able to (mostly) break out of that cycle. Unfortunately, much of African is still stuck in that tribal stage and suffer from lacking a proper foundation for modern innovations. What once would have been only confined to small border skirmishes can now flare into brutal warfare with the addition of guns and rocket launchers. I feel there's a certain learning curve to all of this and it's somewhat unrealistic to think that dropping the latest technologies on people without the philosophical underpinnings to use them will make an enormous difference.

They need their own enlightenment more than cash. There's something to be said for figuring it out yourself. That said, I actually do see progress on the continent. Don't forget that it was only 60 years ago that western civilization was tearing itself apart at the seams in a war that was far more costly and destructive than anything the Africans are facing today.
 
Pfft..where else am I to get those shiny rocks so my wife can look all sparkle-y?
 
There are success stories in Africa, Botswana being a good one.

Botswana is doing well in comparison to other African nations. Botswana is actually a bit of a dump.

I feel there's a certain learning curve to all of this and it's somewhat unrealistic to think that dropping the latest technologies on people without the philosophical underpinnings to use them will make an enormous difference.

Maybe, but no other continent has had quite such trouble with philosophical underpinnings as Africa.

They need their own enlightenment more than cash. There's something to be said for figuring it out yourself.

Indeed. I would argue that the masses of aid being paid to Africa are in fact a hindrence to the enlightenment - the "figuring it out for yourself" or the "moral underpinning" if you like - basically all this aid and charity and all those thousands of UN Land Cruisers are doing a whole lot of harm, not good. It benefits the local people little but secures the tenure of the despots.

As someone else said, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day...and he will need you to give him a fish for the rest of his lifetime.

Read Dark Star Safari by Paul Theroux. He puts it most eloquently.
 
This thread brings to mind my recent comment in another thread about reparations for the descendants of slaves being best offered as a one-way trip to Africa for any who really think that their life here in the U.S. is so rotten because their ancestors were forcibly brought here from Africa.

Perhaps the Bloods and the Crips would do a better job of running the various African nations, than the leaders who are currently doing so. At least they could teach the natives how to more efficiently kill one another.
 
Just about the most vitriolic piece of cruel, immoral invective idiocy I've seen in a good long while.

--- but when you come out with sentences like "Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS", it becomes impossible to take seriously.

Thoughts?



It looks like he's got your number

and will provoke the self-righteous wrath of, well, the self-righteous, letter-writing wrathful, a species which never fails to contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and its moral superiority.
 
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

Chinese Proverb
Give an African a fish and you feed him for a day. Give him a fishing rod and he'll break it for fire wood or swap it for a fish. ;)

Ghana is doing all right. They have a president that is stepping down after his tenure even though the public want him to stay.

Despite his genuine popular following, Mr Kufuor will hand over next month. Under his stewardship, Ghana's gross domestic product has quadrupled from £2.6 billion in 2000 to almost £11 billion today.

Instead of squandering this windfall, Mr Kufuor halved the level of poverty and increased the number of children in primary school by almost a quarter.

He introduced free medical care for the poor in 2004 and free meals in schools. All this has made Ghana one of Africa's rare success stories
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...esident-John-Kufuor-a-good-man-in-Africa.html

Biggest problem for Africa are people like Bono, Gordon Brown, Tony Blair Geldorf etc.
 
Quote:
Despite his genuine popular following, Mr Kufuor will hand over next month. Under his stewardship, Ghana's gross domestic product has quadrupled from £2.6 billion in 2000 to almost £11 billion today.

Gordon Brown borrows that much for brekkies.
 
I disagree very much with the way this person has framed their argument.

But I agree with some of the actual points he makes.

Too much of the effort to help African countries has been a guilt-based thing. "Oh, look at those poor people...let's send them money, they they'll be better off, and I can rest content that I've done my bit to help out."

The result? Almost all the aid to Africa has been bandaid packages, programs that address short-term, temporary situations, without addressing the larger, long-term problems.

Feed a starving kid? Sure, that's a good thing to do. Pay for a kid to get an education? Sure, that's a good thing to do, too.

But what about when he grows up? Will the problems that caused his difficulties and struggles as a child have improved at all? Or will his kids be born into essentially the same situation, starting the cycle all over again? Or an even worse situation?

The vast majority of aid to Africa, for all that I'm sure it was sent with every sincere desire and intent to help, has not really helped them at all. In my opinion.

And its not just my opinion. In Beijing, I had the opportunity to attend various embassy functions hosted by different African nations, and to discuss these issues with diplomats and leaders from those countries. And almost all of them expressed the sentiment that while they greatly appreciated efforts to help, and certainly wouldn't say they'd prefer for children to starve to death for lack of food, that nothing much had been done about improving the overall situation.

"But that's their fault"

In some ways, yeah.

But what about the fact that medical programs funded by the U.S. government are forbidden from mentioning or promoting the use of condoms? Overpopulation and sexually transmitted diseases are two of the biggest problems facing many African nations, and the country that is contributing the most money to help them is at the very same time imposing restrictions that virtually guarantee the problems will continue. Add in the influence of the Roman Catholic church (any form of birth control is wrong), and Islam (female circumsision).

There's a lot to be said for helping people one at a time...and I certainly wouldn't criticize those who desire to do so. But we've gotta' take a step back, and see the bigger picture. Helping people one at a time isn't gonna' make a hell of a lot of difference if the nations they live in are not improving also.

Right now, our African aid programs just seem to guarantee that we'll be feeding starving children forever. This generation. Next generation. The generation after that one. And the one following that.

I don't have concrete answers...in fact, even viewing it as an "African problem" that has some sort of "African solution" is wrong. Africa is a collection of diverse countries and cultures, that all face different problems and challenges.

I don't have concrete answers...but I do have a personal strategy that I think would be better. That we stop putting money into the countries that are the most impoverished, that have the most abuse. That instead, we identify the countries that are doing the best, that are providing the best examples, and help them. And, by helping them, provide a model for other African countries to copy, and build upon.

Right now, the poorer your country is, the more money you'll get. The more developed it is, the less money you'll get. So exactly what incentive is there to improve?!? If you just sit on your butt and do nothing, you'll continue to get handouts.

But if the leaders of these countries see that they'll get more money by changing and improving...then it would be a very different situation.

Problem is, its a very hard sell. Show pictures of one country with starving children living on the street, and another with healthy children studying in school...which one are people more likely to end up giving money to?
 
The Peace Corps was a good idea, in terms of empowerment from the ground up. Part of the trouble is some of the imbalances in resource demands and availability, and management, at the macro level.

As to Africa and what it gives, man, loads of minerals it has provided the world for years, and the best marathon runners on the planet.
 
I'm pretty sure they gave us Ebola too, didn't they?

Interestingly, some years ago I read an article by some African leader of some description, where he urged the West to stop giving Africa financial hand outs, and made a compelling argument that it was actually making things worse.

I can't recall his name, I think he was Zimbabwe. It was a really interesting read.
 
you know "Africa" is like saying "Europe". or even the "North America".

South Africa hasn't gone the path of Rhodesia. Botswana spend more of it's total income on education than any other country in the world. Little steps in the right direction. But don't paint Africa with such a broad brush. Good things are happening.
 
you know "Africa" is like saying "Europe". or even the "North America".

South Africa hasn't gone the path of Rhodesia. Botswana spend more of it's total income on education than any other country in the world. Little steps in the right direction. But don't paint Africa with such a broad brush. Good things are happening.
Right....are we talking SubSaharraen or what?
 
Right, I know people from South Africa and while they admit things are rough, they are positive and upbeat. Botswana is an example for many FIRST world nations.

Africa... anyone who argues "Africa" is already losing any respect I'll have for his/her opinion.

It's like saying "Native Americans live in abject poverty and suffer from alcoholism and diabetes". Well, some, but others are doing just fine with high rates of college graduates and run their tribes with pride and good business sense. The point is to ever paint with such a broad brush is to be disrespectful of those that are beating the stereotype. And it's a lot more than you think.
 
Well said, Kitty.

Personally, I think we should be doing more, not less, for the developing nations of the world in general, and yes, many african nations in particular. Feeding starving children is fine, but how about helping them to improve farm yields, build infrastructure, supply 'micro-loans' etc. How about doing something more to combat AIDS and malaria?
The fact that what we've done so far hasn't been enough isn't reason to suggest that we should do less.
 
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

Chinese Proverb

"Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
 

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