Advice on Flu Vaccination from NHS Direct site

[Ivor the Engineer]

Flu season is coming up and after all the arguments on this forum I was considering getting a flu vaccination this year. I looked on the NHS direct site which seems to discourage those with low risk of complications from getting vaccinated:

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleId=1028

The flu jab is free to people in 'at risk' groups. Only people in these groups need to have a flu jab. This applies to everyone aged 65 or over, or if you have any of the following health conditions (however old you are):

a serious heart or chest complaint, including serious asthma,
serious kidney disease,
diabetes, or
lowered immunity due to disease or treatment such as steroid medication or cancer treatment.
Your GP may also advise you to have the flu jab if you have serious liver disease or if you are a primary care worker, such as a nurse or social worker.

If you are not in one of these groups, you do not need the flu jab. The flu jab is available to those groups because the possible complications of flu, such as pneumonia, can be very serious to at risk groups. For the rest of us, flu is usually only a minor illness that may mean a week off work. Remember there are limited quantities of the flu vaccine and these people need it most.

If you are not in one of these groups, but you think you need to have the flu jab, you should see your GP for advice. If your GP does not think you need the flu jab, you may be able to get the jab from a private non-NHS health clinic. Charges range from about £17-£35. Contact details for private clinics can be found on the Internet or in your local telephone directory.

 

[Naughtyhippo]

I think this can be put solely down to cost. It's silly, as you don't pay NI on sick pay - surely the more people off work, the less money for the NHS?

 

[paximperium]

It is an issue with flu vaccine supply. Those at risk should get it first.
If you want it, go ahead.
Since I work in healthcare, I already got it a week ago.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

It is an issue with flu vaccine supply. Those at risk should get it first.
If you want it, go ahead.
Since I work in healthcare, I already got it a week ago.

Ha! Another case of physician induced demand.

 

[alfaniner]

Flu "jab"? Interesting -- I've never heard it called anything but a flu "shot".

After the last "minor illness" that meant a few days off work, I swore I'd never go through that again if there was a way to prevent it.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Its probably pretty much down to cost effectiveness. Remember that the flu jag is annual. Imagine the cost of getting the entire population immunised every year, for not much more benefit to the NHS than just doing the high risk groups.

 

[geni]

Flu "jab"? Interesting -- I've never heard it called anything but a flu "shot".

After the last "minor illness" that meant a few days off work, I swore I'd never go through that again if there was a way to prevent it.

Upper lip not stiff enough.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I wonder how many flu vaccinations are thrown away each year?

Perhaps the NHS could offer unused ones to anyone who wants one after a certain date until supplies were exhausted?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

For contrast, here are the latest CDC recommendations:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

People who should get vaccinated each year are:

1. Children aged 6 months up to their 19th birthday
2. Pregnant women
3. People 50 years of age and older
4. People of any age with certain chronic medical conditions
5. People who live in nursing homes and other long-term care facilities
6. People who live with or care for those at high risk for complications from flu, including:

a. Health care workers
b. Household contacts of persons at high risk for complications from the flu
c. Household contacts and out of home caregivers of children less than 6 months of age (these children are too young to be vaccinated)​

I'm not sure how many people in the US that actually excludes. Compare with the DoH recommendations in the UK:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...lletters/Chiefmedicalofficerletters/DH_083812

1. Target risk groups for seasonal influenza vaccine
Those groups recommended to receive influenza vaccine remain unchanged from the previous year.

The national policy is that influenza vaccine should be offered to the following groups:

i) all those aged 65 years and over
ii) all those aged 6 months or over in a clinical risk group (listed in Annex 5)
iii) those living in long-stay residential care homes or other long-stay care facilities where rapid spread is likely to follow introduction of infection and cause high morbidity and mortality (this does not include prisons, young offender institutions, university halls of residence etc.)
iv) those who are in receipt of a carer’s allowance, or those who are the main carer of an elderly or disabled person whose welfare may be at risk if the carer falls ill. This should be given on an individual basis at the GP’s discretion in the context of other clinical risk groups in their practice.

As well as offering influenza vaccine to people in the clinical risk groups set out in Annex 5, GPs should take into account the risk of influenza infection exacerbating any underlying disease that a patient may have, as well as the risk of serious illness from influenza itself. GPs should consider on an individual basis the clinical needs of their patients including individuals with:

•multiple sclerosis and related conditions, or
•hereditary and degenerative diseases of the central nervous system.

Where these target groups are not covered by the Influenza and Pneumococcal Immunisation Directed Enhanced Service (DES), PCTs should consider the need for an appropriate local enhanced service (see paragraph 8).

On the DoH Influenza FAQ:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/Flu/Flugeneralinformation/DH_064749

Why isn't 'flu vaccine recommended for everyone?

'Flu is not normally life threatening for healthy people, and the occasional bout of 'flu gives better long term protection than a flu vaccination. Immunising everyone would not represent the best use of current resources.

The internet makes life so much more complicated...

 

[tesscaline]

I'm sure that available supply is a very large factor.

For example, recently here in the US there was a shortage of the flu shot and it was offered first and foremost to those with an actual medical need. Several clinics local to myself actually ran out and had to send patients elsewhere.

I don't really think that "you shouldn't get it unless you actually need it" is an unreasonable stance to take on medical care. Especially when the situation is such that if you provide an item to someone who doesn't need it, someone who does need it may have to go without, and going without may result in a long (and expensive) hospital stay, or even death.

 

[AgeGap]

US-Shot
Ingerlund-Jab
Scotland-Jag

I first heard a Scottish doctor tell a patient that they would feel 'a wee jag' and thought it was a great phrase. Years later I hear people use the phrase 'you'll feel a small prick' and be greatly amused by their wit.

BTW: The NHS advice seems to be the same as any other year.

 

[SusanB-M1]

#1
That is interesting. I have never had a flu jab; when I was first entitled to it, I asked the doctor whether he thought I should have it. 'Do you get flu?' he asked. 'No,' I said. 'Then there is no need to have it,' he said. Made sense to me!

 

[moopet]

What kind of a question is "do you get flu"? - is it like "do you get cancer"?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

For those in the UK not eligible for a flu vaccination on the NHS:

Sainsbury's is offering flu vaccinations at a price of £12.50 for one, or two for £20, which are the lowest prices I've seen so far.

 

[Dymanic]

What kind of a question is "do you get flu"? - is it like "do you get cancer"?

I think it's like "do you get in auto accidents?"

If the answer is no, I guess you don't need to bother with seat belts. "Does your house catch on fire?" -- well, you get the idea.

 

[brodski]

I think this can be put solely down to cost. It's silly, as you don't pay NI on sick pay - surely the more people off work, the less money for the NHS?

NI is not hypothicated in that manner, it all goes to HMT along with general tax revenue.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

A week off of work? I don't get paid unless I show up. My office won't offer it free either. Harumph. Maybe if more people were willing to pay for it, then more would be available cheaper. Law of Supply and Demand.

With all the antivaccine freaks though, vaccine makers don't want to waste too much on hoping people will just pay for it themselves. We can thank antivaccinator misinformation and hatred for 'big pharma" for shortages.

 

[Verde]

I'm sure that available supply is a very large factor.

For example, recently here in the US there was a shortage of the flu shot and it was offered first and foremost to those with an actual medical need. Several clinics local to myself actually ran out and had to send patients elsewhere.

I don't really think that "you shouldn't get it unless you actually need it" is an unreasonable stance to take on medical care. Especially when the situation is such that if you provide an item to someone who doesn't need it, someone who does need it may have to go without, and going without may result in a long (and expensive) hospital stay, or even death.

It looks like the situation is a little different this year.

See, for example:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_he_me/flu_season

Just about everybody needs a flu vaccine — unless you're an infant or a healthy adult hermit — but far too few of the Americans who need protection the most get it.

There's ample supply: 143 million to 146 million doses, more than ever before manufactured. Unlike last year when a surprise new influenza strain emerged, CDC's checks of parts of the world where flu virus already is circulating show that this year's vaccine is a good match and should offer plenty of protection.

So, a general recommendation to get one. I'll certainly do so.

However, 146 million shots will only cover about half the population. This doesn't match with the Just about everybody comment.

I realize the OP was talking about the British situation; is it significantly different over there?

V.

 

[Capsid]

It looks like the situation is a little different this year.

See, for example:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_he_me/flu_season





So, a general recommendation to get one. I'll certainly do so.

However, 146 million shots will only cover about half the population. This doesn't match with the Just about everybody comment.

I realize the OP was talking about the British situation; is it significantly different over there?

V.

The UK has a flu vaccine manufacturer (AstraZeneca) in Speke, near Liverpool and I understand that it exports some of that to the USA.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

I realize the OP was talking about the British situation; is it significantly different over there?

V.

Individual GPs deal with the vaccine manufacturers directly. I'm not sure if the DoH arranges the price with the vaccine manufacturers beforehand.

The UK has achieved greater than 70% coverage for 65+ year-olds for quite a few years now, but the uptake amongst those in risk groups younger than 65 is still pretty low. More effort is being directed toward motivating this group to get vaccinated, along with health care workers.