"Acupuncture beats drug to treat hot flashes: study"

[Rodney]

See http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080922/hl_nm/acupuncture_cancer_dc

 

[quixotecoyote]

Forty-seven breast cancer patients took part in the study, about half getting acupuncture and half getting Effexor. The women kept track of the number and severity of hot flashes before, during and after the 12 weeks of treatment.

Hmmmmmmm.

 

[trvlr2]

Control group?

 

[Jeff Corey]

Placebo control group? Double blind protocol? Peer reviewed study?Stupid researchers?

 

[Acleron]

"It was a more durable effect," Walker, whose findings were presented at an American Society for Therapeutic Radiology and Oncology meeting in Boston, said in a telephone interview.

And probably no peer reviewed paper with data that can studied.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I am surprised that effexor is used for treating hot flashes, as when I have used it, sweating (especially at night) has been one of the most annoying side effects.

 

[Mojo]

That does seem to be a recognised side-effect of the drug, occurring in about 10% of patients.

 

[fls]

See http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080922/hl_nm/acupuncture_cancer_dc

Isn't that what you'd expect? It seems to me that most people expect more dramatic results with a treatment like acupuncture than they would from taking a pill. And we already know that subjective symptoms are strongly influenced by expectations.

Linda

 

[paximperium]

I hate these stupid headlines since when these studies are discredited, they remain with the public mind.

The study adds to a growing body of evidence of the value of acupuncture. Earlier research had shown it can reduce chemotherapy-induced nausea and post-operative pain.

Well, nothing beats false information since this statement is downright false.

I do wonder what the control group was and whether this was actually blinded.

 

[Dancing David]

hello?

Unpublished paper, voluntary sample groups. No stated effect size compared to controls.

 

[paximperium]

hello?

Unpublished paper, voluntary sample groups. No stated effect size compared to controls.

When has that ever stopped the press?

 

[fls]

I do wonder what the control group was and whether this was actually blinded.

It wasn't. The article says that 47 women were divided into two groups - one received acupuncture and one received Effexor. So we have made the useless discovery (once again) that if you expect to feel better, you probably will report that you do.

Linda

 

[H3LL]

It wasn't. The article says that 47 women were divided into two groups - one received acupuncture and one received Effexor.

Linda

I'm most curious about the results from the two half-women.



.

 

[fls]

I'm most curious about the results from the two half-women.



.

Here's the problem. That would work if I had said that the women were divided into two equal groups. Ideally, you should have altered my quote to say that. Who's going to object? It's funny and my original post is unaltered, so nobody can claim shenanigans. But no, your fear of the moderators held you back from going that extra mile.

I blame Lisa.

Linda

 

[GreyICE]

Well it is slightly suggestive that some of these medicines are no better than placebos. No surprise there, really. Pharma companies have to be looking at the profits that homeopathy companies are making and thinking "hey, we could do that too."

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Well it is slightly suggestive that some of these medicines are no better than placebos. No surprise there, really. Pharma companies have to be looking at the profits that homeopathy companies are making and thinking "hey, we could do that too."

I think SSRIs and SNRIs usually come out doing about 15% better than placebo (IIRC). But that would be a placebo pill of course.

 

[Deetee]

The conference information is here.

ASTRO’s Annual Meeting is the premier scientific meeting in radiation oncology and is designed to address the educational needs of radiation oncologists, physicists, biologists, nurses and other healthcare professionals involved in the field of radiation oncology, as well as oncologists working in related specialties.

Seems they received over 2000 abstracts.

Take one major scientific conference, no doubt filled with cutting edge advances in radiation oncology, and what do the media report?
A small, almost certainly uncontrolled and unblinded study on acupuncture and hot flashes.
Sheesh!

Does Orac know about this?



On second thoughts I doubt it, or I would have heard his screams of anguish, even on this side of the pond. I've let him know, since he probably has had some spies at the meeting who can actually report on what was presented.

 

[Acleron]

Pharma companies have to be looking at the profits that homeopathy companies are making and thinking "hey, we could do that too."

What? Produce evidence based medicines? Surely not!

 

[borealys]

Heh. I saw this on the back page of my local paper this morning, and my very first thought was of this forum. The article was so short, I couldn't tell a thing about the methodology, but it doesn't sound very impressive.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Isn't that what you'd expect? It seems to me that most people expect more dramatic results with a treatment like acupuncture than they would from taking a pill. And we already know that subjective symptoms are strongly influenced by expectations.

Linda

Are you telling me my hot flashes were not objective?

I do believe one can objectively measure generalized erythema as well as volume of perspiration if one so desired.

Reports on hot flashes would depend then on correlating the objective data with the subjective reports. Ascertaining the observers were giving accurate accounts of their hot flashes could be done in a good study. Of course with all the acupuncture studies I have seen to date, a good study is hard to find and a good study with positive results is near impossible to find.