Actor Everett labels Starbucks a 'cancer'

[KingMerv00]

In which case, Voodoo Doughnut should not be able to outcompete the big corporations. Why do they?

Goodwill?

A small shop can become entrenched in the neighborhood psyche. Maybe the small town shop makes awesome coffee at a cheaper price than Starbucks. Maybe people circle the wagons to protect a small shop from the outsider because they have a fear of big business for some reason.

There could be a million reasons.

 

[Thanz]

In which case, Voodoo Doughnut should not be able to outcompete the big corporations. Why do they?

I am speaking generally - as in, why larger corporations like Wal-Mart and Starbucks cause trouble for some smaller businesses. It is an error of logic to then say that it should apply to ALL small businesses and that NONE can compete with the large corporations. Shops like Voodoo Donut will provide something that you can't get at starbucks or walmart, and that is how they compete.

Not at all. I am merely asking why it is argued that the Small Shop can win over the Big Corporation, if what you are saying is true.

We seem to have contradicting claims here. They can't all be right.

You seem to have a problem with absolutes. When a larger corporation moves into a retail neighbourhood, some smaller businesses will be able to compete by providing the mix of products/services/prices that enough consumers want. Others will not. Not contradictory, and not hard to understand either.

 

[AmateurScientist]

What Beeps, Teek and Scrut said.

I need a cool shorthand name

How about "T-bone?" Or maybe "Koko?"

AS

 

[HarryKeogh]

How about "T-bone?" Or maybe "Koko?"

AS

great episode!

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm a typical consumer. I want everything cheap, but of excellent quality. It has to be unique and distinct, yet anywhere I go I want to be able to find the exact same thing. I want to have infinite choice in customizing the product, yet I don't want to be overwhelmed by too many options or for this to take too long. It should come from a store that is homey and welcoming and friendly like a small store, yet clean and well-run and organized like a big chain. I want the service to be quick but not rushed, I want the staff to be friendly but not too chatty or nosy, I want there to be plenty of appeal but not too crowded with other customers. I want the prices to be very low, but the staff to be paid very highly and with lots of benefits so I don't feel sorry for them. It should be a very pleasant place to go, but the other customers shouldn't hang around the place, unless they are attractive. I want this place to be located conveniently close, but not too close that it increases traffic to my neighborhood. And I want all of this yesterday.

Okay, businesses big and small. There's the formula for success. Good luck!

 

[Steve]

You know what would be money? Open a Wal-Mart with a Starbucks, a McDonalds and a Krispy Kreme inside. I wouldn't even need a home.

This is not a completely new idea. Most of the newer Wal-Marts around here already have McD's outlets in them.

 

[Forty-Two]

If the coffee shops are worried about Starbucks moving in they should do their homework and offer the customers what Starbucks can't and they'll survive.

And if Rupert is right and no one in the neighborhood wants it they have nothing to worry about.

Damn straight. I work at a Starbucks in a town of only 14,000 people, and I can think of at least five other coffee shops in town. Heck, there's a doughnut shop right next door, and they offer coffee! But the other stores' business is booming right along with Starbucks because we each have a niche.

I've already mentioned the place that primarily sells doughnuts. There's an espresso bar that sells bistro sandwiches. There's one that specializes in quality teas. There's one with flavored coffee beans (an item which Starbucks will never sell, so they're safe). There's one that has antiques, and there are more than a few good ol' fashioned mom 'n' pop stores. It helps that we're a tourist town, but all of these businesses have proven to be sustainable because we all offer something different.

Rupert seems to be one of those, "I hate it because it's so popular!" types. Think for yourself; if you don't like the coffee, just don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Why would they? Is it some kind of natural law?

I don't know. Why someone goes to Wal-Mart/Starbucks/McDonalds? You would have to ask them.

Now, why would a less-than-superior product sell best, if Conventional Wisdom tells us that superior products sell best?

CW doesn't tell us that.

 

[Forty-Two]

Oh, and another note - I see plenty of people walk into our shop with bags of doughnuts from the store next door. So, these people have had a chance at cheaper, more convenient coffee, yet they still chose to walk into our store and pay at least $1.50 for a cup. I think an informed customer will make decisions according to what they want and are willing to pay for, and that's how businesses thrive.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

How about "T-bone?" Or maybe "Koko?"

AS

LOL!

/George
I'm T-Bone!!!!
/

 

[American]

There are endless righteous boycotts that - most appropriately - people don't feel the need to announce and brag about.

I resent Starbucks for much of the same reasons as Everett. So I don't go there.

I don't think they would want me there anyway, so it's mutual and everyone is happy. No whining, no complaints.

 

[KelvinG]

I boycotted Starbucks a few months back when I realized that they are the only coffee shop I know of that makes you pay to use their wireless internet.
I happily tell people about my reasons for boycotting and encourage them to do the same if the idea of paying for wireless, when so many other places offer it free, bothers them.

I'm not naive enough to assume my protestations make much of a difference, but if I'm dissatisfied with a place I'll make my feelings known.

 

[Mycroft]

Not at all. I am merely asking why it is argued that the Small Shop can win over the Big Corporation, if what you are saying is true.

We seem to have contradicting claims here. They can't all be right.

Why can't they?

 

[Foolmewunz]

I love this string. It's all over the map. Mostly innocent fun.

First illogic - "Hollywood Star"? Does the word "star" mean nothing any more.
I had to look him up. "Oh, the voice of the prince in Shrek.... yeah, I'm sure to remember him." (okay that's a rant)

Starbuck's filled a niche when the first came out and now they're a recognized product. Not the coffee, which was the first attraction, but the whole package. I'm not sure what the objection is, really. Are they going to attract the "wrong sort of people"? Starbuck's patrons are generally not a threat, as far as I know. Or is it just people, as a whole? Is Everett now of Brando/Garbo stature and vants to be a-lone?

The comment on Sbarro's failing in an Italian neighborhood had me spitting coffee out my nose (not Starbuck's - I grind my own - and by the way, it's the roasting more than the beans, as long as the beans are relatively decent). Sbarro's best locations are turnpike rest areas. i.e. where you're trapped and it's either the nineteenth jelly donut of the day or some of their pseudo Italian mush. I'm Sicilian-Italian (not as interesting an anecdote as it sounds, avoid me at cocktail parties), and not only would I not eat their penne, I wouldn't eat their bagels, either! That they would fail in any city's Little Italy would be a given. (As would Olive Garden...)

On corporations as a whole..... Starbuck's, as I said, is probably less guilty than most. They charge premium prices for what is perceived to be a premium product. Starbuck's didn't drive Louie's Diner out of business by lowering the prices on two over easy and whole wheat toast. If you want to go economical, you go to Louie's.... back when Starbuck's started, Louie was still selling fifty or seventy-five cent bottomless cup coffee. It just tasted like dishwater and you could read a newspaper through it.

Walmart's, though, is a different case. They are known for driving the little guys out of business, at least in all the 20-20 type stories I've seen (does anyone know if there's any evidence that refutes this, outside of Walmart press kits, at any rate?).

 

[CFLarsen]

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06/food_franchises/source/2.htm

That's how Voodoo Doughnut competes and beats the large corporations.

How come VD isn't bigger than the large corporations, then? They got a winning ticket, right?

edit to add: plus their doughnuts look a hell of a lot tastier than anything at Dunkin' Donuts.

That's your opinion. A lot of DD customers think otherwise.

Goodwill?

A small shop can become entrenched in the neighborhood psyche. Maybe the small town shop makes awesome coffee at a cheaper price than Starbucks. Maybe people circle the wagons to protect a small shop from the outsider because they have a fear of big business for some reason.

Rupert seems to be one of those, "I hate it because it's so popular!" types. Think for yourself; if you don't like the coffee, just don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

But then, the small shops don't have a product that people want. They survive on spite. Hardly a solid foundation for the future.

There could be a million reasons.

And for each reason, it gets harder to explain why the big corporations do wipe out the small shops.

I am speaking generally - as in, why larger corporations like Wal-Mart and Starbucks cause trouble for some smaller businesses. It is an error of logic to then say that it should apply to ALL small businesses and that NONE can compete with the large corporations. Shops like Voodoo Donut will provide something that you can't get at starbucks or walmart, and that is how they compete.

I'm not saying it should apply to all small businesses and that no competition with the biggies is possible. I am just pointing out that small businesses do seem to disappear in favor of the big ones.

You seem to have a problem with absolutes. When a larger corporation moves into a retail neighbourhood, some smaller businesses will be able to compete by providing the mix of products/services/prices that enough consumers want. Others will not. Not contradictory, and not hard to understand either.

This can only happen in a large enough community, or if a lot of people travel through.

This is not a completely new idea. Most of the newer Wal-Marts around here already have McD's outlets in them.

And Barnes & Noble has a Starbucks as well, often integrated in the book store. Very, very clever....

Damn straight. I work at a Starbucks in a town of only 14,000 people, and I can think of at least five other coffee shops in town. Heck, there's a doughnut shop right next door, and they offer coffee! But the other stores' business is booming right along with Starbucks because we each have a niche.

I've already mentioned the place that primarily sells doughnuts. There's an espresso bar that sells bistro sandwiches. There's one that specializes in quality teas. There's one with flavored coffee beans (an item which Starbucks will never sell, so they're safe). There's one that has antiques, and there are more than a few good ol' fashioned mom 'n' pop stores. It helps that we're a tourist town, but all of these businesses have proven to be sustainable because we all offer something different.

I'm certain it helps that you are a tourist town.

I don't know. Why someone goes to Wal-Mart/Starbucks/McDonalds? You would have to ask them.

Because they have good products that people want?

CW doesn't tell us that.

No? What does CW tell us, then?

Why can't they?

I thought you were ignoring me?

The comment on Sbarro's failing in an Italian neighborhood had me spitting coffee out my nose (not Starbuck's - I grind my own - and by the way, it's the roasting more than the beans, as long as the beans are relatively decent). Sbarro's best locations are turnpike rest areas. i.e. where you're trapped and it's either the nineteenth jelly donut of the day or some of their pseudo Italian mush. I'm Sicilian-Italian (not as interesting an anecdote as it sounds, avoid me at cocktail parties), and not only would I not eat their penne, I wouldn't eat their bagels, either! That they would fail in any city's Little Italy would be a given. (As would Olive Garden...)

And yet, there's a Sbarro very close to Little Italy, New York.

 

[Beerina]

How do small shops compare to this?

Unless you can show this, your numbers are meaningless.

I have no doubt he can show that, since small shops don't have deep pockets, they won't have very many disgruntled employees stirring things up looking to get "paid".

I wonder if any investigative reporters would look into the investigative reporters reporting on the Starbucks thing to see if they are selling Starbucks stock short.

I recall when the Tazer company went public, it's stock shot up. Immediately there were big news articles on TV about how tazers killed people. Hell, there's still a thread or two floating around here about it. I always wondered if there weren't news exectutives somewhere waiting for this stuff to happen. Buy as it goes public, sell high, rent to sell low, release the news story, sell the stock low and return it, keep the profits.

 

[Foolmewunz]

And yet, there's a Sbarro very close to Little Italy, New York.

My first reaction was, "Say it ain't so!... Uncle Vito! Get da boys...." Then I looked it up. (I'm living in Hong Kong, now, and haven't been in Little Italy since sometime in '03.)

"Close to", yes, as the crow flies, but New York is so unique in that one respect. If you arbitrarily take a left and walk six blocks in that area you can cross into four different sub-cultures. B'way and Canal is sort of equi-distant from all of them, and is one great big ol' shopping/tourist crossroads. And I'm not picking on Sbarro's necessarily - a lot of people like the food; just not a lot of first or second generation Italians to the best of my knowledge. (I know, I know.... "no true Scot would ever"....)

By the way, I'd never heard of Nolita - I guess that's for Northern Little Italy. Has to be a real estate invention. (Like changing Upper Lower East Side to East Village, when those of us who lived there always called it Alphabet City.) Not easy to sell a condo when the immediate association is abandoned tenaments and crack wars!

Anyhow - back to the thread.... I think the question is one of value for money. If I'm willing to pay three bucks (that's what my grande cap costs in Hong Kong) for a cup of coffee and feel that it's three dollars worth of coffee, and enough agree with me, then the place will succeed.

Any well-run new business can harm an old business that will not adjust. It's not all based on 'cheap' as we've proven already. How about the corner green-grocers as we called them when I was young. Mr. and Mrs. O'Neill got run out when the larger familied Batistellas came over in the 20's and offered more and fresher produce and supplies. The Batistellas got run out by the Papalakos family, and then the Papalakos's got driven out of business by the Kims and Parks and Lees. Each ensuing new ethnic group brought a little more elbow grease, innovation, and care to the business, or at least enough that it shook up the current standard. The Koreans in NYC, in fact, fit the Starbuck's argument. They charged more for many of their items. But they carried a better selection, spent what seemed like twenty hours a day misting the produce and fresh flowers, and any time there were more than three people lined up at the cash, one of the guys from the veggie stand ran over to help out. Even in the tough old times in Alphabet City, nary a single mom-and-pop store survived the onslaught OF LEGITIMATE COMPETITION. Now the style of store the Korean families started with in the 70's is 'de rigeur' for the New York Corner Store. The great Jewish delis have survived, as have the great Irish Pubs (McBell's is still there, PLEASE SAY SO!...) and the best Italian and Greek and Arab and and and and....

So, in some respects, even to mean old Walmart,... it's just that they've built a better mousetrap. They found a model and it worked. (Ya wanna talk bullies? How about the office superstores? They literally closed down an entire business sector - the local stationer. But how many of us today couldn't conceive working all day with computers, disks, printouts, etc... without that trusty Staples or Office Depot.... One whisk through the place every three or four months, and you're done. Quality, Price, Selection, Availability.... Say no more.)

 

[CFLarsen]

I have no doubt he can show that, since small shops don't have deep pockets, they won't have very many disgruntled employees stirring things up looking to get "paid".

OTOH, one or two disgruntled employees can wreck havoc to a small company with even a relatively small grudge.

My first reaction was, "Say it ain't so!... Uncle Vito! Get da boys...." Then I looked it up. (I'm living in Hong Kong, now, and haven't been in Little Italy since sometime in '03.)

A honker, eh?

"Close to", yes, as the crow flies, but New York is so unique in that one respect. If you arbitrarily take a left and walk six blocks in that area you can cross into four different sub-cultures. B'way and Canal is sort of equi-distant from all of them, and is one great big ol' shopping/tourist crossroads.

I used to live there, and Chinatown was my second home. That's why you are both right and wrong: Yes, NY is a world of worlds, but inside those worlds, you can be a very long way away from the others.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Don't forget Rupert Everett is an actor, and as a celebrity he obviously knows more that us "normal" folks....


..perhaps he has heard of:

Starbucks To Begin Sinister 'Phase Two' Of Operation ...

 

[HarryKeogh]

How come VD isn't bigger than the large corporations, then? They got a winning ticket, right?

From the information provided it appears they have a winning ticket. They're thriving while their competitors in the area (large franchises) are going under.

Voodoo Doughnut has only been around a few years. If you could cite a local retail store that grew from one location to be bigger than the global market retail leaders in a few years that would be impressive. How long did it take Gap, McDonald's, Starbucks and Wal-Mart to be on top? Not five years, that's for sure. Also, I don't know of their expansion plans. Some businesses have ambitious growth plans others prefer to concentrate on one (or a handful of) locations.