Actor Everett labels Starbucks a 'cancer'

HarryKeogh said:
Image and brand name usually help but not always. I grew up in a very Italian neighborhood and a few years back they tried opening a Sbarro chain pizza joint. It went under in a couple of months. There were just too many good, mom n' pop pizza joints in the neighborhood.

There's a doughnut shop called Voodoo Doughnut that I read about recently in Fortune or Money or something. They offer unique doughnuts, have cool in-store events and since opening they've put several big name doughnut shops out of business in their surrounding area. They've made their doughnut shop into a destination.

If the coffee shops are worried about Starbucks moving in they should do their homework and offer the customers what Starbucks can't and they'll survive.

And if Rupert is right and no one in the neighborhood wants it they have nothing to worry about.
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I agree. If the little independent coffee shops go out of business it's because their customers are abandoning them in favour of another coffee house - in this case, Starbucks (which also started as an independent place and did something right). How is that Starbucks' problem?

If Voodoo Donuts decideds to expand and opens up a branch next to a little independent donut shop which then goes out of business, fair play to them. If they continue that expansion and eventually get big enough for Rupert Everitt to protest their existence, I will applaud them.
 
Maybe something more than cancer..??

This story has occurred and passed virtually unnoticed with only 6 hits in Google News, some of which have already been relegated to Website Not Found. The company is blaming the ruckus on an effort by a handful of union organizers.


Current and former employees of the gourmet coffee chain filed a federal complaint yesterday claiming their corporate bosses have refused to heed repeated warnings about inadequate training and chronic infestations of roaches, rats and other vermin in New York stores.

Out of the 201 Starbucks stores in the city, the Department of Health issued notices of violation to 44 for rodent or insect activity in the most recent round of inspections, city records show.

The complaints filed by Starbucks employees with the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration focus on three stores - at Union Square East, E. Ninth St. and Second Ave., and E. 57th St. and Lexington Ave.

Among the 201 Starbucks stores in the city, 51 stores received 12 or more violation points.
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rest of story here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/444195p-373976c.html



And this from UPI today:

City records show that 44 of New York's 201 Starbucks locations were issued violations for rodent or insect activity in the last round of health inspections.
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A wittle more at:


http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060817-044041-6000r
 
KingMerv00 said:
Why are small town shops good and corporations bad? Don't they all employ human beings?
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Sure. But if the product they sell is dependent on human beings alone, why do corporations generally win over small town shops?

The Central Scrutinizer said:
Why not?
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Why would they? Is it some kind of natural law?

KingMerv00 said:
But they got what they wanted.
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If they settled for a lesser product, why are the big chains so successful? They are not making a superior product, yet it sells?

Now, why would a less-than-superior product sell best, if Conventional Wisdom tells us that superior products sell best?

Perhaps CW is neither conventional nor wisdom?
 
CFLarsen said:
People are never lured by anything else than a superior product?
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Oh, of course they are. Please see my second example. Voodoo Doughnut did a fantastic job marketing themselves and creating a great brand image in the community.
 
SteveGrenard said:
Maybe something more than cancer..??

This story has occurred and passed virtually unnoticed with only 6 hits in Google News, some of which have already been relegated to Website Not Found. The company is blaming the ruckus on an effort by a handful of union organizers.





rest of story here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/444195p-373976c.html



And this from UPI today:




A wittle more at:


http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060817-044041-6000r
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How do small shops compare to this?

Unless you can show this, your numbers are meaningless.
 
tkingdoll said:
Of course. Cheap coffee, burgers and...er...everythings, are easy to resist in principle, but when you can smell them...
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Wait are you saying that starbucks coffee is cheap? Macdonalds coffee I could see that arguement for, but cheapness does not seem to be a fundamental part of starbucks business moddel
 
HarryKeogh said:
Oh, of course they are. Please see my second example. Voodoo Doughnut did a fantastic job marketing themselves and creating a great brand image in the community.
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But big companies do the same. How do they do it? It isn't enough to say that they do. You need to explain how.
 
DaChew said:
You know what would be money? Open a Wal-Mart with a Starbucks, a McDonalds and a Krispy Kreme inside. I wouldn't even need a home.
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I would forsee heart problems caused by saturated fat and caffinee in your future then.
 
CFLarsen said:
Sure. But if the product they sell is dependent on human beings alone, why do corporations generally win over small town shops?
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I know that it is common parlance, but it really is not enough to refer to things like Starbucks or Wal-Mart as "corporations". Probably most of the small town shops are set up as corporations as well for liability purposes. It is the size of the corporation that is the difference. Larger corporations have economies of scale that smaller ones cannot match. Wal-mart is the perfect example - because of their size, they can negotiate much lower prices from suppliers and price their stuff cheaper - which has obvious appeal to the consumer.

If they settled for a lesser product, why are the big chains so successful? They are not making a superior product, yet it sells?

Now, why would a less-than-superior product sell best, if Conventional Wisdom tells us that superior products sell best?

Perhaps CW is neither conventional nor wisdom?
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I disagree that convential wisdom tells us that a superior product will sell best, as it ignores the price side of things. I think that conventional wisdom tells us that the product that will sell best is the one that has the most benefits for the least cost, generally speaking.
 
CFLarsen said:
Sure. But if the product they sell is dependent on human beings alone, why do corporations generally win over small town shops?
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Just a guess.

Corporations provide the same services as small town shops but on a larger scale so they are more familiar to the average Joe. If I'm driving down the road and I want some pancakes, do I stop at Joe's Waffle House or IHOP? I wouldn't know Joe's Waffle House if I saw it and I'm not familiar with their product or prices. Guess where I'm going.

Also, corporations have deep pockets so they can have a larger inventory. There is a mom and pop supermarket on the grounds of my apartment complex. The products it sells are kinda shabby. I wish there was an ACME or other chain supermarket nearby. They carry stuff I like.

Why do you ask? Do you suspect something more sinister?
 
Thanz said:
I know that it is common parlance, but it really is not enough to refer to things like Starbucks or Wal-Mart as "corporations". Probably most of the small town shops are set up as corporations as well for liability purposes. It is the size of the corporation that is the difference. Larger corporations have economies of scale that smaller ones cannot match. Wal-mart is the perfect example - because of their size, they can negotiate much lower prices from suppliers and price their stuff cheaper - which has obvious appeal to the consumer.
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In which case, Voodoo Doughnut should not be able to outcompete the big corporations. Why do they?

Thanz said:
I disagree that convential wisdom tells us that a superior product will sell best, as it ignores the price side of things. I think that conventional wisdom tells us that the product that will sell best is the one that has the most benefits for the least cost, generally speaking.
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Again, how can VD win over the big corporations?

SteveGrenard said:
er, they're not my numbers. They are NYC Health Department numbers.
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The numbers are what you argue. You have to show what you compare them to. Otherwise, you are merely making a vapid statement, devoid of content and meaning.

KingMerv00 said:
Just a guess.

Corporations provide the same services as small town shops but on a larger scale so they are more familiar to the average Joe. If I'm driving down the road and I want some pancakes, do I stop at Joe's Waffle House or IHOP? I wouldn't know Joe's Waffle House if I saw it and I'm not familiar with their product or prices. Guess where I'm going.

Also, corporations have deep pockets so they can have a larger inventory. There is a mom and pop supermarket on the grounds of my apartment complex. The products it sells are kinda shabby. I wish there was an ACME or other chain supermarket nearby. They carry stuff I like.

Why do you ask? Do you suspect something more sinister?
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Not at all. I am merely asking why it is argued that the Small Shop can win over the Big Corporation, if what you are saying is true.

We seem to have contradicting claims here. They can't all be right.
 
SteveGrenard said:
Maybe something more than cancer..??

This story has occurred and passed virtually unnoticed with only 6 hits in Google News, some of which have already been relegated to Website Not Found. The company is blaming the ruckus on an effort by a handful of union organizers.





rest of story here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/444195p-373976c.html



And this from UPI today:




A wittle more at:


[URL="http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060817-044041-6000r"]http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060817-044041-6000r[/URL]
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Yeah, I read that article this morning, Steve. And considering large chains usually have cleaner restaurants (they can afford in depth training programs, have contracts with pest control companies and usually have written procedures for everything and have area managers who drop in) than small independent stores it was even more disturbing.

The Daily News rates restaurants every year by going over their health reports and fast food joints usually do pretty well and some very fancy independent restaurants have many more violations than one would think.
 
With something like Wal Mart I can sympathize with the complainers a bit...they sell the same stuff as other places but they do it for less and I could see the possibility of them driving others out of business and then jacking up their prices. But with a Starbucks where the prices are higher than the other coffee shops sitting literally 50 feet away and yet people still choose to go to Starbucks?...if you blame that on anyone other than personal choice you're just not looking very closely.

There's been a Starbucks less than two miles from where I live for the past 10 years and except for one time when I went into it with a friend because the friend knew someone that worked there, I've never set foot in it. But Starbucks is still there despite the fact that there are several other coffee shops within a few hundred yards. And whenever I walk past I've yet to notice someone standing there with a hook and dragging people in the door.

Some markets are more responsive than others. With Betamax/VHS, people made a big investment on something that had to last several years, etc, so that situation is way different than standing in front of three different coffee shops and picking the one you want to go to. The latter is much more of a true market. I don't know how Starbucks lures people in, but I know they aren't twisting arms.
 
CFLarsen said:
Again, how can VD win over the big corporations?
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http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06/food_franchises/source/2.htm

Even though three local Dunkin' Donuts went out of business within Voodoo Doughnut's first three years of business, the concept behind the shop strays wildly from its major competitor. Voodoo caters to partiers by staying open all night and creating a circus-like atmosphere with eating contests and eclectic live music. Sandwiched between nightclubs and bars on a popular strip in Portland, the shop draws customers craving the "Memphis Mafia" (a doughnut smothered in chocolate chips, banana, peanut butter, sugar glaze) and the "Dirt" (vanilla glaze and Oreo cookies), among other confections.


Advice about competing with major chains:

"Never pay for your own advertising -- go out and sell your own product. We're always lining up TV appearances and interviews. It's still hard work, but it's fun."
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That's how Voodoo Doughnut competes and beats the large corporations.

edit to add: plus their doughnuts look a hell of a lot tastier than anything at Dunkin' Donuts.
 
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