• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

ACLU defends anti-Islam shirts

Grimes

Unregistered
G
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
79
Didn't see this posted (please correct me if it has been):

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ne...u-defends-antiislamic-tshirts-in-schools.html

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida filed a federal lawsuit today against the Alachua County School District charging that school administrators unlawfully censored students’ free speech on multiple occasions when high school, middle school and elementary school students were suspended and/or threatened with suspension for wearing tee shirts promoting their religious beliefs about Christianity and Islam in school and at school events earlier this school year.

The lawsuit asks the court to find the school officials’ actions, as well as the school’s policies on banning “offensive dress” unconstitutional so that the students may express their religious views freely.

[...]

Initially, students went to school wearing shirts with “Jesus answered ‘I am the way and the truth and the life; no one goes to the Father except through me’” and “I stand with Dove World Outreach Center” on the front and “Islam is of the Devil” on the back. The same phrase was displayed on a billboard at the students’ church, Dove World Outreach Center, prior to the beginning of the school year.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what to think about this. While I'm in no way religious and think kids should be able to wear whatever they want to school, discriminating against Muslims just doesn't seem like a free speech issue. I'm also not sure why the ACLU would take such a case. Do they really want to open this can of worms?

I hope they do win, though, so a Muslim kid can wear a shirt saying "Christianity is the reason for all the world's ills." And after that kid is released from the hospital, he can thank the ACLU for upholding his right to discriminate.
 
Last edited:
I think all the religions should stop pussyfooting around and just have a big fight.
 
Grimes said:
I'm also not sure why the ACLU would take such a case.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why they wouldn't. This is what the ACLU does. It defends free speech. The thread title is a little deceptive. The ACLU's not really defending the shirts. It's defending the right to wear the shirts.
 
This brings to mind something I've never really understood. Why is there such passion to defend ones own religion and yet viciously attack others? Why not just live and let live.

And that applies to some atheists as well, if you dont believe fine but why attack others that do?

Just dont get it, it's beyond my meager brainpower I guess.
 
Grimes said:
Didn't see this posted (please correct me if it has been):

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ne...u-defends-antiislamic-tshirts-in-schools.html



I'm not sure what to think about this. While I'm in no way religious and think kids should be able to wear whatever they want to school, discriminating against Muslims just doesn't seem like a free speech issue. I'm also not sure why the ACLU would take such a case. Do they really want to open this can of worms?

I hope they do win, though, so a Muslim kid can wear a shirt saying "Christianity is the reason for all the world's ills." And after that kid is released from the hospital, he can thank the ACLU for upholding his right to discriminate.
Click to expand...


I don't see how a slogan which may offend some people = discrimination...
 
I doubt the kid could wear it in our school district, based solely on the dress code enforcement. They have a very strict policy, and this would likely fall under "disruptive" shirt (with the caveat that this district is very conservative, so pro-Christian shirts would likely get a pass.)

I mean, even our kids hair color has to be "natural".
 
Grimes said:
Seriously?
Click to expand...

Yes, seriously. We talk about "discrimination" in terms of how people treat others -- generally in the context of providing services, privileges, or jobs. Speaking out against a philosophy with which you disagree is very different than taking actions that discriminate against people that believe that philosophy. Speaking out against Christianity or Islam or liberalism is very different than discriminating against Christians or Muslims or liberals.
 
Grimes said:
I'm not sure what to think about this. While I'm in no way religious and think kids should be able to wear whatever they want to school, discriminating against Muslims just doesn't seem like a free speech issue.
Click to expand...

If the only discrimination which is taking place is in the form of speech, then of COURSE it's a free speech issue. Mind you, I'm not of the opinion that we need to grant children in school full free speech rights, but free speech is definitely the issue in this case.

I'm also not sure why the ACLU would take such a case. Do they really want to open this can of worms?
Click to expand...

Isn't that sort of their raison d'etre?
 
students went to school wearing shirts with “Jesus answered ‘I am the way and the truth and the life; no one goes to the Father except through me’” and “I stand with Dove World Outreach Center” on the front and “Islam is of the Devil”
Click to expand...

Way to go on "outreaching to the world", idiots.
 
1) The approach of the ACLU is to defend civil liberties wherever and whenever they are perceived to be threatened, regardless of the topic, the viewpoint, or the advocate. The idea is that, to enjoy free speech, you must defend the speech you hate.

2) Try to find a copy of the movie "Skokie," about a planned American Nazi Party rally in Skokie, Illinois, back in the early '70s(?). Skokie had an inordinately high number of concentration camp survivors living there, and the Chicago office of the ACLU was mostly staffed by Jews.
 
Drysdale said:
This brings to mind something I've never really understood. Why is there such passion to defend ones own religion and yet viciously attack others? Why not just live and let live.

And that applies to some atheists as well, if you dont believe fine but why attack others that do?

Just dont get it, it's beyond my meager brainpower I guess.
Click to expand...


At the risk of a derail, the problem isn't that atheists attack believers. I'm sure many here, myself included, couldn't care less what crazy things people believe in the comfort of their own heads. It's when the belief demands respect or even deference from non-believers that many people start to bristle. As an example, it's like when creationists try to get their ideas taught as a credible science, that's when people "attack" the believers.

My view is that you have the right to believe anything you want, as do i. When other people try to push their (unevidenced) beliefs on me, we have a problem.
 
KarlG said:
My view is that you have the right to believe anything you want, as do i. When other people try to push their (unevidenced) beliefs on me, we have a problem.
Click to expand...

I'll take it one or two steps further, with the same caveat: I will not only stand by, quietly and respectfully, while someone practices their religion, I am willing to run interference if someone tries to disrupt them.

While we're at it, I've seen people here take umbrage when a believer of whatever sort wants to pray for them. Personally, I'm willing to accept whatever help I can get. Besides, the believer is doing the best favor for me that he knows how to do; it would be churlish to marginalize it.
 
students went to school wearing shirts with “Jesus answered ‘I am the way and the truth and the life; no one goes to the Father except through me’” and “I stand with Dove World Outreach Center” on the front and “Islam is of the Devil”
Click to expand...
It makes more sense to me to stand up and be for something, than to go out of one's way to be against something via an anti-stance presented in such cartoonish terms. "Stop the war" is a better anti stance than "Bush is a chimp" for example.

Question for the parents of these teens: why do you let your kids out of the house dressed like this? There is nothing wrong with being against Islam, or more specifically Islamism (the political movement), but I have two problems here:

1. The juxtaposition of a positive message with an insulting one.

2. The motive: I have a sneaking suspicion that this was set up by an adult to create controversy. Call me a CT if you like, but this strikes me as disruptive behavior deliberately planned and implemented.

DR
 
ACLU press release


Pretty standard stuff for the ACLU, they are defending the student's right to free speech but as in the 'Bong hits for Jesus" part of it may be repressing speech that is not specificaly during instructional time:
In a final effort to stifle the students' free speech, school officials instructed police to eject the students and their parents from school property during an Alachua County high school football game on October 2, 2009. The students and their parents, who wore three different versions of the shirts to the game, did not disrupt the game or engage in disruptive behavior with other fans, but they were still removed from the premises because school officials found the message offensive.
Click to expand...
So they are probably going on at least three tracks here.
 
When will people get it through their heads that the ACLU will always defend all speech (outside of the limited "fire" in a theater caveat) and not just speech that they agree with?
 
Beady said:
1) The approach of the ACLU is to defend civil liberties wherever and whenever they are perceived to be threatened, regardless of the topic, the viewpoint, or the advocate. The idea is that, to enjoy free speech, you must defend the speech you hate.

2) Try to find a copy of the movie "Skokie," about a planned American Nazi Party rally in Skokie, Illinois, back in the early '70s(?). Skokie had an inordinately high number of concentration camp survivors living there, and the Chicago office of the ACLU was mostly staffed by Jews.
Click to expand...


I don't care. I still hate Illinois Nazi's.
 
Darth Rotor said:
It makes more sense to me to stand up and be for something, than to go out of one's way to be against something via an anti-stance presented in such cartoonish terms. "Stop the war" is a better anti stance than "Bush is a chimp" for example.

Question for the parents of these teens: why do you let your kids out of the house dressed like this? There is nothing wrong with being against Islam, or more specifically Islamism (the political movement), but I have two problems here:

1. The juxtaposition of a positive message with an insulting one.

2. The motive: I have a sneaking suspicion that this was set up by an adult to create controversy. Call me a CT if you like, but this strikes me as disruptive behavior deliberately planned and implemented.

DR
Click to expand...
Neither planning nor motive places a behavior outside the first amendment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom