Achau Nguyen Challenges! (again)

Dan O. said:
In the right conditions the equipment is simple and readily available. If there are multiple near by radio stations you could use their radiated power as the carrier. A simple diode and wire antenna woven into a garment would form an inter-mod mixer that can be switched by connecting the two ends of the antenna. A general coverage receiver would easily pick up the mixed signal. Even a Novice would be able to send and receive code at 5 words per minute. 60 seconds per word is not even a challenge.

I'm sure JREF would take extra necessary precautions for the final test such as using a shielded room and scanning for bugs.
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As I said earlier, this could only explain how to generate a signal, not how the other person could recieve it. Notice that you say "A general coverage receiver would easily pick up the mixed signal.", yet you also claim that no electronic devices are needed by either participant. The sender might be able to get a signal out of the building, but you have not said anything about how a person outside the building could get a signal back in.

Edit : Incidentally, you also said
Dan O. said:
And no, I haven't been inconsistent. I have excluded electronics being available to the applicants inside the testing facility. JREF does not test for (and perhaps can not test for) the existence of electronics outside the testing facility.
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A diode and antenna are electronics by any standards. Your claim that this is possible with no electonics available to the applicants inside the building is simply not true. Both the sender and reciever, as well as the person outside, need electronic equipment.
 
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Please try to keep up Cuddles.

I've presented 2 ways to covertly send a message from within the testing facility. The modulated microwave reflector is a classic from the early cold war era and is completely electronics free so that it cannot even be detected by a sophisticated bug sniffer. The diode modulator was presented because it is much simpler and easier to conceal though it would have to be snuck past the sniffer.

You are also falling into the trap of believing that the signal has to go directly from the sender to the receiver. When all the protections are to prevent direct communications it is much easier to go around through a third party on the outside.

To get the message back to the receiver, one possibility if there is a window admitting light from the outside as there was in the first test is to use polarization modulation of the ambient light. The modulation would be detected by the receiver wearing polarized contacts and viewing a spot where the light falls opposite the window.
 
Dan O. said:
Please try to keep up Cuddles.
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I'm afraid I'm not just keeping up, I'm actually way ahead of you, as is everyone else on this thread.

I've presented 2 ways to covertly send a message from within the testing facility. The modulated microwave reflector is a classic from the early cold war era and is completely electronics free so that it cannot even be detected by a sophisticated bug sniffer. The diode modulator was presented because it is much simpler and easier to conceal though it would have to be snuck past the sniffer.
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Yes, two ways, one of which is electronics and therefore should be excluded by your own restrictions.

You are also falling into the trap of believing that the signal has to go directly from the sender to the receiver. When all the protections are to prevent direct communications it is much easier to go around through a third party on the outside.
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No I'm not. I specifically said that you had only provided a way of sending information to someone outside. Your problem is that you have no way of getting it back in.

To get the message back to the receiver, one possibility if there is a window admitting light from the outside as there was in the first test is to use polarization modulation of the ambient light. The modulation would be detected by the receiver wearing polarized contacts and viewing a spot where the light falls opposite the window.
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There isn't a window. The whole point of a closed room is that there is no way to get information in. If there is a window, why not just say you'll have someone outside waving or holding up cards without bothering with all this polarisation complication? If you can come up with a way to get information to someone in a closed room without them having electronics on them, I'm all ears. All you have so far is a way to get information out of one, which does not make your case at all.
 
Getting back to the subject of the claim, Atheist, have you ever been able to find out if he as attempted to try his powers using the protocol in a series of dry runs before the challenge & what were the results? When we were setting up the original challenge, the question was asked several times, but not answered. He would just insist that he could do it...
 
Dan O. said:
To get the message back to the receiver, one possibility if there is a window admitting light from the outside as there was in the first test is to use polarization modulation of the ambient light. The modulation would be detected by the receiver wearing polarized contacts and viewing a spot where the light falls opposite the window.
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Riiiight. The claimant sets up this elaborate system and it looks like it is going to work but one of the testers says, at the last minute, "Hey, Jake, would you pull those shades on the window, the sun is bugging me."
 
Dan O. said:
The point was to bring up the possibilities so that JREF won't be taken by a clever con. You obviously still don't believe it can be done so you wouldn't know how to take the necessary precautions to prevent it.

If a psychic were to pass the preliminary test they would probably be too busy making their own millions to bother with the final test.
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I respect what you're trying to do, I just happen to think that you're completely off-track. There is certainly a chance that someone will try to cheat to pass a preliminary test, but if that happens and that person is challenging for the NZ challenge, I can guarantee that no cheating will take place by use of electronic devices.

I also think that you're off-target with the type of equipment it would be done with. Personally, I'd favour using smart fabric - placed in a jacket or shirt collar/cuff, it would be invisible through visual searches and would require no other people than the tester & receiver. (Or one of several other means that has been pointed out to me.) When it comes to electronics, the "ON" button is about my go, but I work with one of the top electronics consultanting companies in the world and have them available to call on if needed. I am aware of the possibility of cheating and am certainly set up to catch any attempts via any means.

I'd like to think that JREF, with vastly more experience than anybody at this game, also has all angles covered.

Given the knowledge of Randi, his past and his accomplishments, I just cannot imagine anyone being stupid enough to try to cheat. Apart from anything else, attempting to cheat, even at a paranormal challenge, wtill counts as serious fraud in this country, given the pecuniary advantage of a successful cheat.

I'd love someone to try, and I bet James would as well. A failed challenge won't make any headlines, but a challenger arrested and taken away by the Serious Fraud Squad while having a go at it sure as hell would.
 
I don't get it; people start talking about how to cheat the test with electronic devices, Dan O describes how to do it, Cuddles ignores the explanataion because he is "way ahead of" him, and how The Atheist is calling him completely off track?

Get a communications degree, and we'll talk.
 
Cuddles said:
There isn't a window. The whole point of a closed room is that there is no way to get information in. If there is a window, why not just say you'll have someone outside waving or holding up cards without bothering with all this polarisation complication? If you can come up with a way to get information to someone in a closed room without them having electronics on them, I'm all ears. All you have so far is a way to get information out of one, which does not make your case at all.
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You could at least do a little research before posting

Achau was escorted to a table in a small theater upstairs, while E. and J. were taken downstairs to the lobby of the Steve Allen Theater where another table awaited, directly below Achau upstairs. The upstairs theater had no windows to the outside, or open doors to the level below. The table downstairs faced a wall that contained a small, high window facing a hill across the street.
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Dan O. said:
You could at least do a little research before posting
Achau was escorted to a table in a small theater upstairs, while E. and J. were taken downstairs to the lobby of the Steve Allen Theater where another table awaited, directly below Achau upstairs. The upstairs theater had no windows to the outside, or open doors to the level below.
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Bolding mine. Achau's in a room with no windows.

Am I missing your point?
 
Ravenwood said:
Getting back to the subject of the claim, Atheist, have you ever been able to find out if he as attempted to try his powers using the protocol in a series of dry runs before the challenge & what were the results? When we were setting up the original challenge, the question was asked several times, but not answered. He would just insist that he could do it...
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No I haven't, so good point.

Achau approached me after he'd already challenged JREF's and CFIW's challenges, so I've just agreed to be in it. He's sent me copies of some of his e mail correspondence and there's no mention of it.

I've just e mailed him to find out and will let you know asap!
 
Dan O. said:
The modulated microwave reflector is a classic from the early cold war era and is completely electronics free so that it cannot even be detected by a sophisticated bug sniffer.
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Do you have a link with some examples of this? Maybe something with some pictures? (Yes, I'm a moron.) I've googled a bit but didn't come up with anything. Honestly, I'm trying to get a picture in my mind of how this might work.

To get the message back to the receiver, one possibility if there is a window admitting light from the outside as there was in the first test is to use polarization modulation of the ambient light. The modulation would be detected by the receiver wearing polarized contacts and viewing a spot where the light falls opposite the window.
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So, if one of the rooms has no window, it won't work? Or does it have to be the receiver's room?
 
I wonder if he finally tested himself in a somewhat controlled way.
Does anyone know?
 
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