Abortion
- Thread starter chris epic
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I found a link to the abortion mortality quote.
Interesting. In the same document:
396 deaths in one year due to being pregnant. 1.3 million abortions in one year are somehow not justified by pregnancy supposedly being unsafe for the mother, eh?
And nowhere in the document do they say what the "developing regions" are or what their death rates are for pregnancies and other surgeries and so forth for comparison to the abortion mortality rate. It would be nice to know what countries they are talking about so we could check.
Interesting. In the same document:
396 deaths in one year due to being pregnant. 1.3 million abortions in one year are somehow not justified by pregnancy supposedly being unsafe for the mother, eh?
And nowhere in the document do they say what the "developing regions" are or what their death rates are for pregnancies and other surgeries and so forth for comparison to the abortion mortality rate. It would be nice to know what countries they are talking about so we could check.
Abbyas
Muse
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That is 100% what I mean. And what I've been trying to get across with the discussion of "inconvenience".
It's normal, but it's painful and extreme. And I don't believe that anyone should be forced to go through it if they don't want to. And, yes, if a woman wants to have a biological child then she pretty much has to, and that's fine and great, but if she doesn't want to, she shouldn't have to.
meg
psychic reader
I see. I was quoting from page three where it says "Women also cited possible problems affecting the health of the fetus or concerns about their own health (13% and 12%, respectively)"
And Table 2 on page 4, entitled "Percentage of women reporting that specified reasons contributed to their decision to have an abortion" which lists the 2004 results as 13% and 12%, and the 1987 results as 14% and 8%)
LukeT is quoting from table 3 on page 5 entitled "Percentage distribution of women having an abortion, by their most important reason for having the abortion."
So, I guess you just have to make your own mind up, Chris, as to how to weight either table.
Meg
And Table 2 on page 4, entitled "Percentage of women reporting that specified reasons contributed to their decision to have an abortion" which lists the 2004 results as 13% and 12%, and the 1987 results as 14% and 8%)
LukeT is quoting from table 3 on page 5 entitled "Percentage distribution of women having an abortion, by their most important reason for having the abortion."
So, I guess you just have to make your own mind up, Chris, as to how to weight either table.
Meg
meg
psychic reader
Oops. Yes. Sorry, Luke. You already stated that. 
Meg
Meg
meg
psychic reader
I don't understand what you're saying. I don't think anyone here has tried to say that women are getting abortions because to be pregnant will automatically kill them.
Alan Guttmacher was a former president of Planned Parenthood, I believe. They (AGI) are one of the most well respected and most cited sources of reproductive infomation in the world.
I don't know the validity of that number any more than I don't know the validity of the much larger numbers you were talking about.
I'm not particularly concerned with what might or might not have been the number of illegal abortion deaths 30 years ago. I am far more interested in what that number might be should abortion be made illegal.
I'm not sure what the point of even arguing about that would be. Are you saying that since illegal abortions don't kill very many women that it's ok? It would be better for women to get illegal abortions than to get legal ones performed in licensed facilities by licensed practitioners? Since they're getting a medical procedure that you don't approve of, it's ok if they go to unlicensed persons, or unsanitary facilities, since they probably won't die from it?
Making it illegal isn't going to stop abortions. Cheaper, better, more freely available contraception would drastically cut the amount of abortions, though. If we want to reduce the amount of abortions that happen in this country, that's where to start, I think. Not by attempting to decide and legislate whether women have good enough reasons to suit you.
It is my opinion that if a woman decides she needs to have an abortion, she has good reasons. It's not for you or me to say. Only her.
How would you know it was a myth? Can you say with absolute certainty that nobody has tried this? You can't because these cases were not reported. I can't either, but the possibility is open that people will try these things if they can't get an abortion legally.
The other reason I don't think abortion should be illegal is because some babies are shown to be born with serious problems where they can only survive a few hours outside of the womb and are only born into the world to live for a few hours of pain. But I can't bring myself to say I'm pro-choice either because I don't like to see people getting multiple abortions just because they don't want a baby in their lives and the only reason for that is because they don't want to parent.. I can't make heads of tails of it, because I don't have enough information about abortion and don't know all that much about it.
I just think any arguments about rape and incest and health of the mother are smokescreens to cover the overwhelming real reasons behind the number of abortions.
Okay. And the primary reasons cited for why women get abortions do not disagree with the same reasons and percentages I listed from another source.
You brought up a high number of deaths in "developing regions" due to illegal abortions as if that would have some bearing on what would happen here. It has no bearing on what would happen here.
Which is why I showed there were 39 deaths from illegal abortions in the last full year before Roe v. Wade. And a total of 88 deaths from both legal and illegal abortions. You see, before Roe v. Wade, abortion wasn't completely illegal everywhere. It was left to the states, which is where we would return if Roe v. Wade is overturned. It is my guess that if Roe v. Wade were overturned today, abortion would still be legal in more places than it was in 1972. But that's just a guess.
And since medical care has come a long way in the last 30 years, I don't suspect the number of deaths would increase if abortions were illegal today.
I realize my topic on SC is quite long, but if you had read it, you would see the most significant realization I came to during the process was learning that the number of illegal and legal abortions immediately before Roe v. Wade and the number of legal abortions after Roe v. Wade did not change in any significant fashion.
In other words, whether or abortion is legal or illegal in the U.S., the number which occur doesn't change.
This was in direct contradiction to my assumptions going into the subject. I was heavily biased in the belief that the number of abortions before Roe v. Wade was significantly lower, and that making abortions illegal again would cause a significant drop in them. I was wrong. The evidence came out against me. It was a big pill to swallow.
The end conclusion I reached in the topic on SC was pretty much the same. The aim should be to educate about birth control.
As a pro-lifer, it is a matter of principle to me that Roe v. Wade be either overturned or at least scaled back to prevent abortions in the second trimester on. And about 70 percent of Americans agree with that position. Illegalizing second trimester abortions, that is.
However, most pro-life effort should be directed toward birth control education.
When you think about the number of men and women who are not using any birth control, not even a condom, in an age of AIDS and herpes and other STDs, it is scary.
If I believe she is carrying a human being in her womb, then it is for me to say whether she should be allowed to kill it.
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I thought the "overwhelming real reasons" was that someone didn't want a particular kid?
Why anyone would want someone to have a kid they didn't want has always been beyond me. (Not saying you are saying that Luke - just a general comment.)
Even allowing for defective babies and rape and incest and the life of the mother, that still leaves well over a million abortions annually to account for.
If you don't want a kid, use birth control or abstain from sex.
That's two ways of doing it. A third way is to abort any kid you don't want. All of the different ways have their pros and cons.
Don't understand the relevance of this at all what has someone getting AIDS got to do with someone having a kid they didn't want?
I'm just saying that the decisions that lead to the consequences need to be made earlier, not when it is too late.
But it's not too late in the case of an unwanted child since we have effective and safe drugs and other techniques for aborting an unwanted child.
meg
psychic reader
Account for to whom? Exactly who is making the judgements here?