Abortion Referendum
- Thread starter Strawberry
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ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
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Catholic hospital. Who else would you expect to be in charge, a doctor? Remember the main purpose is to save souls, the lives of their patients are not all that important.
aleCcowaN
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Not repeal, probably.
I prefer hypocrisy: not penalizing abortion so it can be freely offered (that's being debated in Congress, right now, in my country).
I don't accept the state promoting or financing abortion unless the mother's health is at risk or the foetus has severe genetic problems.
I prefer hypocrisy: not penalizing abortion so it can be freely offered (that's being debated in Congress, right now, in my country).
I don't accept the state promoting or financing abortion unless the mother's health is at risk or the foetus has severe genetic problems.
SusanB-M1
Incurable Optimist
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Who, then should take full responsibility for the full time, full-time in every way, care and nurture until adulthood of the babies who will be born in spite of their pre-birth mother's wish to have an abortion?
To deny a woman the right to have a properly managed abortion and, as a result, be complicit with less safe means is so wrong.
Why not?
(And that's 100% sincere not a trap or gotcha question. I'm honestly curious)
Guybrush Threepwood
Trainee Pirate
A minor correction to Strawberry's post, if the 8th amendment is repealed then the Irish parliament would be able to make laws on abortion with no constitutional restriction. There is currently no proposed legislation, Strawberry's second paragraph is a recommendation from a government committee, but there is no guarantee it would become law.
FWIW I'll be voting to repeal.
aleCcowaN
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Because abortion is not the only available method to prevent the birth of a new human so it's wrong for the organized community to promote or even approve such actions. Contraception is what the state can promote and finance.
In case of severe defects -like Patau syndrome- or health risk for the mother, abortion is the only available way, then it's acceptable.
That about the role of the state. What a private citizen does is acceptable unless it's defined as a "crime" . I don't agree performing or getting an abortion before week 12 is a crime. Hence I'm in favour of the de-penalization of such activities.
3point14
Pi
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Contraception sometimes fails.
aleCcowaN
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Ian Osborne
JREF Kid
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I hate the idea of abortion, but keeping it illegal creates all sorts of problems. I'd have to vote repeal. 
When a woman is already pregnant, it is the only available method.
I don't think the fact that in hindsight some other method would have been available is particularly helpful given a situation where at present she's pregnant.
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
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Don't you tell!
That doesn't mean the state has to bless any solution for that.
So no state involvement in prenatal care either then? It seems that this ends up with many outcomes of accidental pregnancies getting blessed by the state except one.
aleCcowaN
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Yes ... replacing "one" with "any method that involves killing".
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Well, SusanB, what about holding a pillow over unwanted babies' heads? Exactly, so why is it OK to despatch unwanted foetuses?
I met one woman in hospital who had had six abortions, and another who'd had four. What?
Put something at the end of it!
What is needed is proper education about sexual health and the consequences of unprotected sex, including STD's and all sorts of nasties.
Abortion being logically and morally equivalent to murder is just one of those base, ideological difference that is always going to be isn't it?
(And again I don't mean that in a snarky or backhanded way.)
(And again I don't mean that in a snarky or backhanded way.)
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
Repeal.
Strawberry
Master Poster
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Yes I think so. Its an issue of conscience essentially, and in Irish politics its become the issue that won't go away.
What I suspect most Irish people want is a perfect solution which will mean no woman ever gets refused medical treatment due to the rights of her unborn child, no victim of rape or incest ever has to carry the pregnancy against her will and nobody whose pregnancy has gone wrong so badly that the foetus is unlikely to live outside the womb is forced to continue the pregnancy, while also not killing any unborn children.
We certainly don't want the situation Vixen describes where people are having multiple abortions for trivial reasons. Its a difficult one.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Because a foetus is not the same thing as a baby.
Virtually every system has to accommodate exceptions. Yes, multiple abortions for trivial reasons in undesirable, but I will bet this makes up a minute proportion of all abortions.
The decision to abort is usually a heart wrenching one, and moralists should stay away from individual decisions like this.
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
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Any country that bases part of its constitution on the bible is a virtual theocracy in my book, and there are only two arguments against abortion: religious and idiotic.
Then you'd have missed the irony.
As Arth pointed out, foetuses are not babies, so it's a dumb question.
Because it is the MOTHER's right to decide whether to carry it or not, just as it's every adult's choice to have cancer treatment or not when they have cancer.
I believe we live in a time when women can consent or not to sex. Seems pretty illogical to allow them that latitude and not allow them to consent to being an incubator for 9 months for a child they don't want.
I met one woman in hospital who had had six abortions, and another who'd had four. What?
What limit do you suggest? Some women have double-figure abortions.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/journal...3-women-have-had-at-least-nine-abortions.html
Can I suggest that that be changed to "everyone but the mother"?
Who the hell's business is it other than hers?
Crikey, if men needed abortions, it would have been legal since they found ways to terminate pregnancies. What I hate most about the whole abortion debate is old men who try to force their Medieval views on (generally) young woman who aren't doing it for fun.