People have sex so that they can later have abortions. That's the fun bit. The sexual activity that precedes the recreational abortion is a bit of a chore, but it has to be done if your hobby is having abortions.
Abortion Referendum
- Thread starter Strawberry
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Whilst it might save the NHS vast sums of money from the hordes of abortion seekers coming over to England for their operations and plus, the planet is overpopulated, I am not sure people have even thought the issue through.
'Yes' seems to be the trendy vote.
'Yes' seems to be the trendy vote.
Strawberry
Master Poster
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Irish women who travel to Britain for abortions do so as private patients who pay private fees. So this won't be saving the NHS anything.
There was a lengthy debate in Ireland in which all the issues were discussed in detail and from all angles.
Is there any subject about which you're not painfully ill informed, Vixen?
How about contraception? That's another thing the Christian fundies who infest Ireland have objections to.
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
Wrong yet again Vixen.
Yep. Bloody embarrassing.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
A civilised society as we know it is founded on the family. Per Hegel and Engels the most basic economic unit is man and wife and this extrapolates to the wider society via inheritance laws, employment laws, welfare benefits and pensions.
So, you can either choose so-called 'sexual morality' (as per the Bible') or reject it.
Indeed, many gays don't bother with the concept of fidelity. For example, Tom of Finland, who came from a neighbouring parish of mine in Finland, spent most of his youth cruising for lovers, upwards of >800 a year, despite Finland still having harsh anti-homosexual laws right up to 1963, were men prosecuted for homosexual behaviour could be castrated by the state. (This is why he eventually emigrated to California and helped found the Gay movement there.)
As John Lennon, says, 'whatever gets you through the night, it's all right'.
However, when a third party enters the picture, i.e., a foetus, when does it stop being a 'clump of cells' and become a person.
Obviously, it doesn't get recognised as a living being until it breathes its first breath of air and is deceased when it breathes its last.
Abortion has always been a contentious issue. Not so long ago, women used to take to a hot bath with a bottle of gin, and some pills from the abortionist down the road, or they'd visit a back-street abortionist who'd do horrenduous things with a customised coat hanger.
It was mainly due to women putting their lives and health at risk by these dangerous methods that legal abortions 'on demand' began to become available.
There is the 'woman's right to choose', but there is also the father in all this.
I knew of a case where a father (unmarried) went all the way to court to try to stop his girlfriend aborting their baby (he lost). If he had been married, or had 'put something on the end of it' - as Jeremy Kyle likes to say - he would not have found himself in that mess.
People have accidents, get raped, get carried away, all sorts of things.
It is said the fall of the Roman Empire, and before that, the Greeks, was because of the dissolution of the family (Roman men often having boyfriends, as well as the wife) and the Greeks also having a love of boys.
Who knows? <shrug>
What we as a society need to do is work out, do we want a stable family system, or do we want a free for all 'anything goes' one?
Personal is political.
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You can choose sexual morality as per anything - or reject it. So I don't know what you're talking about unless you're saying Engels was a Bible-bashing fundie. Where does he say that "the most basic economic unit" is "man and wife" anyway?
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
No, he is one of the forefathers of communism, and Marx drew heavily on him in Das Kapital.*
As you know, the Bolsheviks were all for promiscuity, abortion, mass nurseries with women taking it in turns as 'mother'.
Did it work? You tell me.
How can you choose sexual morality if you have no idea what it is?
*The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State. The Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State: in the Light of the Researches of Lewis H. Morgan (German: Der Ursprung der Familie, des Privateigenthums und des Staats) is an 1884 historical materialist treatise by Friedrich Engels.
The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/.../The_Origin_of_the_Family,_Private_Property_and_the_State
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abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
That is largely because Engels wrote Das Kapital while embezzling money from the family business to fund Marx's debauched lifestyle.
Irrelevant. There is nothing wrong with communal motherhood. It occurs frequently in the natural world.
How can you choose any morality when you are in thrall to a magic book that tells you what to think?
It’s simply ridiculing the usually agonising decision women have to make to have an abortion. It implies (no, more than implies) that it is nothing but a trivial afterthought. They are disgusting and cowardly words.
"lovers" >800 a year! That's taking the concept of love at first sight to extremes. Or perhaps the wrong word?
Contraception (or indeed abortion) would not be relevant in this case, are you thinking more about protection against STD.
There a number of fantasy posts in this thread that are best ignored.
I'm not sure
At face value, it's abortion that someone has, simply for the experience of having an abortion. A bizarre concept IMO, but then again there are people who will pay good money to have perfectly functional limbs amputated.
Of course I suppose that The Big Dog could be referring to abortion as a means of contraception as a recreational abortion but who knows ?
One definition of a "recreational abortion" is an abortion performed for any reasons other than those supported by the person using the term. If someone supports abortion in the case where the mother's life is in immediate risk then any other kind of abortion is "recreational".
Strawberry
Master Poster
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I'm not sure
At face value, it's abortion that someone has, simply for the experience of having an abortion. A bizarre concept IMO, but then again there are people who will pay good money to have perfectly functional limbs amputated.
Of course I suppose that The Big Dog could be referring to abortion as a means of contraception as a recreational abortion but who knows ?
One definition of a "recreational abortion" is an abortion performed for any reasons other than those supported by the person using the term. If someone supports abortion in the case where the mother's life is in immediate risk then any other kind of abortion is "recreational".
Its the height of hypocrisy. TBD is fine with voting for a POTUS who has unprotected sex with porn stars, and boasts about grabbing women by the pussy, but if Ireland votes to ditch an abortion law so restrictive it prevents even rape victims from terminating a pregnancy we're engaging in 'recreational abortion.'
Its male chauvininsm gone mad.
Well of course, 'fake news', 'SJW', always best to come up with some glib misleading label you can use to dismiss real issues and anyone who tries to bring them up.
My views on abortion are still under development, it's such a difficult subject (who could imagine it would be so complicated). The good thing is that with falling birth rates in the developed world (the exact geography of the phenomenum probably availaible on wikipedia) some governments are valuing child birth by their citizens more highly. That can result in financial assistance during pregnancy and birth, legislation for longer maternity leave, subsidised child care, tax benefits, subsidised/free schooling. What I hope for is the end to abortion for economic reasons (anybody got a percentage on that?)
As for the whacko posts. I found the one I replied to so amusing it couldn't be completely ignored. I still smile if I read it.
SusanB-M1
Incurable Optimist
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I'm listening to the 5:0 p.m. Radio 4 programme. The news of the strongly supported vote for abortion in Ireland is very good news. It would have been an extremely backward step if the vote had been to keep the amendment.
But then far too much time was given to two people - MEN - who are angry about it. That makes me very cross!! The BBC are supposed to be fair. Huh!!
But then far too much time was given to two people - MEN - who are angry about it. That makes me very cross!! The BBC are supposed to be fair. Huh!!
ddt
Mafia Penguin
Ah yes, Hegel and Engels are our primary lawgivers?
Ah, the famous biblical sexual morality. A couple of examples:
1) When Sarah wouldn't get pregnant, Abraham screwed her maid.
2) When Laban had tricked his nephew Jacob in giving him Leah in marriage, he worked another seven years to also get her younger sister Rachel as second bride.
3) David placed Uriah in the frontline so he could screw his widow Bathsebah.
4) and of course the most famous one, the Holy Spook raped Joseph's fiancée.
Those are actually quite tame ones, you can google for more extensive lists.
<citation required>. I also wonder what male gay sex has to do with abortions.
<citation required>. You're an accountant, right? Can you work out how many that is per day? And how he still would have had time for (a) a day job and (b) making his drawings?
From the Tom of Finland foundation:
So no, he did not emigrate. Another fail.
<citation required>. And no, that's not how the Greeks' "love of boys" worked.
Western society has basically already worked out what it "wants", and the new standard very much seems to be "serial monogamy". Also among gays.