AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[pomeroo]

And you've been caught leaving out important information! So many selective
detectives here! haha.

By the way, where was that missile that was supposed to shoot down the plane? Did the mutli-trillion dollar defence system fail as the plane was tracked for 50 KM's and doing a loop in restricted air space for several minutes?

So sad, you guys can't even see how impossible these fabricated theories
really are.

Sorry, but I left out no important information. By the time the shoot-down order was received, there were no planes left to shoot down: all four had crashed. Flight 77, as you know, was not tracked into the Washington, D.C. area.

It's time for you to stop telling ancient lies and get a life.

 

[OldTigerCub]

Whatever guys. Your answers to my list are non-existent, or weak at best.

I proved Anti wrong and you all just dodge the issue. Those that are reading
this thread from the outside will hopefully see the facts.

Have a nice night believing a theory that has been put to rest by actual
FDR/ARINC 717 documentation.

A typical twoofer cop-out. Well illustrated too. Claim weak answers when cornered, or change the subject. Claim to have proved a minor detail wrong without realizing it is irrelevant in the big picture.
Most people viewing the threads here at the JREF come as rational, thinking individuals looking for answers to counter crazy claims such as the ones put forth by such fringe groups as pfft, CIT, AE, etc. My feeling is that your thread has enriched that knowledge base...but not in the way you would like.
Have a nice day, and try to get a little more fresh air. Too much time on teh interwebs will rot your brain.

 

[Turbofan]

What Turbofan in his infinite ignorance means is that Minetta's testimony is supposed to contradict Cheneys. Because he reads cult tabloids like PFT, he thinks they are the only two Witnesses. He doesn't want to acknowledge that there was a room full of people there that day that ALL contradict Minetta's timing. But if they were to report that fact, they would not be able to sell as many DVDs, get as many banner ad money, or sell as many T-Shirts. If they also included the fact that all the phone records and security logs also contradict Minetta' testimony, then they would lose even more of the sales from their little 9/11 con scam.

but it's a good exaple of how they try to use the weakest evidence to dismiss the stronger evidence. And they do so by trying to deceive people by leaving out the important information which is needed in order to make a proper opinion. Or like this thread where Turbofan is assuming everything is working perfectly to spec and on a theoretical level and using that to dismiss everything that doesn't fit with his pre-determined conclusions. In his world of make-believe, warranties aren't needed as everything always works as it should in theory and there is no such thing as wear and tear, stress, failure, etc.

Of course again, he has yet to explain what actually happened. He is much too busy ranting about political issues and his dsiagreement with the war. And when he is asked why he is too lazy to follow through on his claims, he says it was someone elses job and they didn't do it right. yes, a cop out on turbos side of course. The truth is that people DID do their job and they did it right. If turbo and the other kids say something else happened, then it's their responsibility to prove it. But they won't bother to do that because it won't help the sales of their merchandise and it would hurt their profits.

Sorry Mr. selective detective,

Mineta's timeline contradicts the arrival time of Cheney to the PEOC. Mineta
is on video confirming this; it's not hearsay!

It doesn't surprise me that you are not aware of this.

Still wanting to know why the plane wasn't shot down if the order was given?

Your country was under attack (known since second tower strike),
and nobody could figure out how to hit a commercial airliner circling over
restricted airspace with the world's most sophisticated defence system?

Have you taken the hook out of your mouth yet?

 

[Turbofan]

A typical twoofer cop-out. Well illustrated too. Claim weak answers when cornered, or change the subject. Claim to have proved a minor detail wrong without realizing it is irrelevant in the big picture. Most people viewing the threads here at the JREF come as rational, thinking individuals looking for answers to counter crazy claims such as the ones put forth by such fringe groups as pfft, CIT, AE, etc. My feeling is that your thread has enriched that knowledge base...but not in the way you would like.
Have a nice day, and try to get a little more fresh air. Too much time on teh interwebs will rot your brain.

Timing charts are not good enough? What else would be more suitable than
a timing chart to show an answer to a TIMING question? LMAO!

So...if the timing charts prove there was no delay in the FDR data, and
that makes the FDR data correct...how is that not significant?

 

[Turbofan]

Sorry, but I left out no important information. By the time the shoot-down order was received, there were no planes left to shoot down: all four had crashed. Flight 77, as you know, was not tracked into the Washington, D.C. area.

It's time for you to stop telling ancient lies and get a life.

"The plane is 50 miles out..."

"The plane is 30 miles out..."

"The plane is 10 miles out..."

Which plane are they tracking then smart guy?

It was even tracked by Air Traffic Control, and a video testimony as well. Did you forget that too?!

Care to twist the official story a little more to satisfy your dream?

 

[Turbofan]

but it's a good exaple of how they try to use the weakest evidence to dismiss the stronger evidence. And they do so by trying to deceive people by leaving out the important information which is needed in order to make a proper opinion.

Need I remind you of the following:

- The small entry hole into the Pentagon
- Norman Mineta's testimony against Cheney
- E4-B video by CNN
- Lack of significant plane debris
- Lack of serial identification of plane debris
- Incorrect date on Pentagon video
- NTSB animation stops short of impact
- NTSB animation shows incorrect pressure altitude

oh and ummm...

- FDR data shows plane is too high to hit the light poles, and/or Pentagon.

 

[MarkyX]

Mineta's timeline contradicts the arrival time of Cheney to the PEOC. Mineta
is on video confirming this; it's not hearsay!

What Turbofan in his infinite ignorance means is that Minetta's testimony is supposed to contradict Cheneys. Because he reads cult tabloids like PFT, he thinks they are the only two Witnesses. He doesn't want to acknowledge that there was a room full of people there that day that ALL contradict Minetta's timing. But if they were to report that fact, they would not be able to sell as many DVDs, get as many banner ad money, or sell as many T-Shirts. If they also included the fact that all the phone records and security logs also contradict Minetta' testimony, then they would lose even more of the sales from their little 9/11 con scam.

There we go, he answered your argument. BTW, Minetta doesn't believe 9/11 was an inside job or any foul play was involved. So despite he believes his timeline is correct, he still doesn't support anything you guys propose. He still thinks Flight 77 hit the Pentagon and Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville.

So why are you supporting him?

 

[jaydeehess]

I guess you're forgetting about the presentations, the radio shows, the
open letters that PFT, AE, and other organizations continue to propagate.

This means nothing at all if what you wish are answers from the NTSB concerning your contentions that the recorded data on the Flight 77 DFDR do not match the physical evidence of the path of the aircraft.

ONCE AGAIN then, when will a technical whitepaper illustrating these errros be presented to the NTSB, the pilot's unions and ICAO?

I guess you're forgetting about the 100's of thousands your government
is killing in the middle east (innocent civilians and soldiers) for a war they
can't tie to Osama. For the WOMD they still can't find. For the 2.3 Trillion
that went 'missing'. The video contradicted lies that Bush, Cheney, Rice, etc.
can't explain. Where's that proof?

I guess yopu are overlooking the fact that this has absolutly nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

How about the increasing number of professionals that continue to join
these organizations.

Increasing?

How about the first responders and families of the victims that are pushing
for a new investigation.

Please note how many of those agree that the buildings were all damaged by direct gov't acts rather than by planes hijacked by Islamic terrorsits. Otherwise your statement is as useless as it is tangential to the thread topic.

Ummm... the list of anomalies which I continue to list and you all continue to ignore.

All have been addressed. You choose to not accept the discourse on them.

The impeachment orders that have been read in parliment

?? Congress perhaps but once again, not relevent to this thread's topic.

It's fine, keep selecting the information that makes you happy. Our movement continues to grow, and there are more and more people starting to catch on.

Actually you continue to have fewer and fewer people showing up at rallies and more and more people realizing that there is no "Truth Movement" but rather a loose coterie of groups that believe sometimes mutually contradictory stories.

 

[Turbofan]

All have been addressed. You choose to not accept the discourse on them.

Why would/should I accept the BS theories you guys make? They don't make
any sense, and they contradict each other.

The best I've read here is:
1. The small entry hole into the Pentagon

"The engines vapourized upon impact, or burned from the fire."

So explain the damage to the interior columns that would span at least the
width of the two engines?

Show me a picture of where the engine entered through the Pentagon wall?

Show me how titanium burns at jet fuel temps in open atmosphere?

2. Norman Mineta's testimony against Cheney

"Mineta's testimony supports the shoot down order. AA77 Was not tracked in the D.C. area."

That's B.S. right there, and yes the plane was tracked by several sources.
Documented tesitmony on video as well.

3. E4-B video by CNN

Nothing here. Nobody has a logical explanation of the E4-B? It was left out
of the official story too! Strange how that plane is in the area as the explosion
occurs, but fighter jets couldn't make it since the second tower strike!

4. Lack of significant plane debris

"The plane shattered/vapourized upon impact."

So...how do bodies survive, and chairs?

No tail section?
No significant fuselage sections?
No turbofan engines found?
Only one of ten wheel hubs?

5. Lack of serial identification of plane debris

No explanation.

Piss poor "investigation" and available info. Nothing to show debris
was in fact from AA77

6. Incorrect date on Pentagon video

Nobody has any answers about this either.
Need I say more?

7. NTSB animation stops short of impact

Where's the rest of the video? No logical explanation of this either.

8. NTSB animation shows incorrect pressure altitude.

Nobody has given a solid answer here. The biggest excuse is "Human intervention."

Why would someone change the altimeter values in the FDR file? You do
understand that the animation is based on the FDR data, correct?

How does this altimeter setting change in the animation without tampering?
The corrected altitude shows the plane is too high. Continues to fly over
your heads.

9. FDR data shows plane too high to hit poles/Pentagon

Excuses? Several. Contradictions - Many.

One guy says it's not meant for "inch accurate measuring". We're talking
about several g's. We're talking about severl hundred feet...not an inch or two!

You can't account for DME, AND Vertical Speed, AND G force, AND Altitude in any of the theories I've read here.

Read up and study. I'll respond to those with direct arguments to either
of these nine points.

 

[WildCat]

The best I've read here is:
1. The small entry hole into the Pentagon

"The engines vapourized upon impact, or burned from the fire."

Lies just flow effortlessly out of your mouth, don't they?

 

[T.A.M.]

SInce Turbo mentioned the lurkers, here is a note for them...

Turbo and his ilk subscribe to the idea that a group of govt agents or the like PLANTED the FDR (Data Recorder) for flight 77, but when they did, they put fake data on it that DISPROVES THEIR OWN STORY.

Now think about it for a minute. If some evil cabal of evildoers were smart enough to pull off an attack like 9/11, and keep it secret from everyone, do you really think they would be DUMB ENOUGH to put data on their PLANTED, FAKE FDR, that actually proves their own story WRONG????

really???

PFT, CIT, and the FLYOVER/FDR FAKED groups are the FRINGE of the 9/11 truth theories. THEY HAVE BEEN REJECTED BY THE MAJORITY of 9/11 truthers themselves, let alone the general, sane public.

TAM

 

[Turbofan]

Lies just flow effortlessly out of your mouth, don't they?

Those are my lies...those are the theories I've read here in this thread.

So, what's the actual excuse then Wildcat?

 

[Turbofan]

Now think about it for a minute. If some evil cabal of evildoers were smart enough to pull off an attack like 9/11, and keep it secret from everyone, do you really think they would be DUMB ENOUGH to put data on their PLANTED, FAKE FDR, that actually proves their own story WRONG????

Why couldn't they be smart enough to release files with data which shows
AA77 hit the Pentagon?

You think that's why they purposely changed the altitude in the animation?

Notice neither of you attempted to explain any/all of the nine points.

 

[WildCat]

Those are my lies...those are the theories I've read here in this thread.

Really? In which post does someone claim the engines vaporized? Or burned away to nothing? If you can't produce the quote you are a liar. Ironic, isn't it, that the "truth" movement is so full of liars?

So, what's the actual excuse then Wildcat?

Excuse for what? Remains of the engine were found in the Pentagon: http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/P200030-1.jpg

 

[Turbofan]

Excuse for what? Remains of the engine were found in the Pentagon: http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/P200030-1.jpg

LMAO! Where is the rest of it?
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/docs/mystery_engine_s.jpg


Check out the size of an actual engine here.
http://www.ziopedia.org/images/PW2000.jpg


What part of the engine do you think that piece is from? The fan blade rotor?
The turbine?

I can't wait to see your response to this!

Here, I'll even help you out with one of your GL sites:
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

 

[Turbofan]

While we're at it...show me how the airplane gets through the columns,
windows and wall in this overlay:

http://api.ning.com/files/JvMJm4-W5D-z8-X3T*x4wxuv8fXfGc09-F6JDNJ3Zyw_/Polestandingintact.jpg

 

[bje]

LMAO! Where is the rest of it?
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/docs/mystery_engine_s.jpg


Check out the size of an actual engine here.
http://www.ziopedia.org/images/PW2000.jpg


What part of the engine do you think that piece is from? The fan blade rotor?
The turbine?

I can't wait to see your response to this!

Here, I'll even help you out with one of your GL sites:
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

Turbofan,

Please tell us what the statements are of the 1,000+ people who saw or recovered the wreckage from inside the Pentagon, or who sorted through it openly on the Pentagon lawn, all in the hours, days, and weeks after 9/11.

What did these people say?

 

[Turbofan]

NTSB Animation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Q8nSEeUec

See anything wrong here?

- Incorrect flight path
- Altitude incorrect on pressure altimeter
- Plane too high and off course to hit light poles
- Animation stops too soon

 

[Turbofan]

Turbofan,

Please tell us what the statements are of the 1,000+ people who saw or recovered the wreckage from inside the Pentagon, or who sorted through it openly on the Pentagon lawn, all in the hours, days, and weeks after 9/11.

What did these people say?

Why are you answering my question with another question?

Why don't you tell me what my witnesses said because their accounts
actually support the FDR data, and the photos I linked.

I'll be keeping a list until someone can explain this photo evidence and NTSB
animation (the errors):

NTSB Animation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Q8nSEeUec

See anything wrong here?

- Incorrect flight path
- Altitude incorrect on pressure altimeter
- Plane too high and off course to hit light poles
- Animation stops too soon

While we're at it...show me how the airplane gets through the columns,
windows and wall in this overlay:

http://api.ning.com/files/JvMJm4-W5D-z8-X3T*x4wxuv8fXfGc09-F6JDNJ3Zyw_/Polestandingintact.jpg

Where's the plane debris?
http://www.waarheid911.nl/precollapse.jpg

 

[lapman]

NTSB Animation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Q8nSEeUec

See anything wrong here?

- Incorrect flight path
- Altitude incorrect on pressure altimeter
- Plane too high and off course to hit light poles
- Animation stops too soon

You've again shown that you have no concept of what "working copy" means. Only you and the conspiracy liars require it to be dead-on accurate. It doesn't matter that they may have gotten some parameters, ie air pressure, true vs. magnetic North, start and stop times, etc., wrong.

While we're at it...show me how the airplane gets through the columns,
windows and wall in this overlay:

http://api.ning.com/files/JvMJm4-W5D-z8-X3T*x4wxuv8fXfGc09-F6JDNJ3Zyw_/Polestandingintact.jpg

Your picture shows it quite perfectly. The engine fits right into the huge hole on the first floor. The columns are broken and bent in the correct manner for the angle that the aircraft struck the building. So, what hit the generator?

Where's the plane debris?
http://www.waarheid911.nl/precollapse.jpg

Oh, you mean this debris: