A Warning from Israel

[Vagabond]

Well that documentary forgot to tell you the water, power and cell phone system in Gaza are Israeli utilities. <<<<<

Prisoners are provided water, power and phones free of charge in all prisons. I doubt they consider that a worthwhile benefit.

 

[Jocko]

In a documentary I watched the other day, they said that the Israelis are only .5 percent of the population of the Gaza but are using 40 percent of the resources of the area. Then they wonder why they are getting blown up.

So disporportionate resource consumption explains away terror attacks? How do you figure this? Are Israelis yanking groceries out of Palestinian hands at the Winn Dixie? Siphoning gas from their cars? Stealing their cable? What?

 

[CapelDodger]

Capel Dodger, leaving the general political analysis of a general issue what is your opinion about articles like the one that was posted in the OP?

What purpose do you think that they really serve, if you believe that they serve any purpose.

I think they serve a purpose for the author and for those who seek out such authors to keep them balanced on a thin rope.

In this case, the thin rope is the conviction that Israel was created as a way of assaulting Palestinians. Or Arabs, or Muslims, or dusky folk generally, whatever. As you'd expect, I'll point out that an equally thin rope is the idea that Palestinians object to zionists because they'e Jews.

 

[CapelDodger]

A) Demon should not be taken seriously and B) Counterpunch.org is peddling in propoganda and should not be taken seriously either.

Spelling corrected to :

Don't listen to him, children.

Don't read that, children.

 

[CapelDodger]

Widely held by who, exactly?

Exactly? Every one of them? With quotes, sourced on the InterNet? Are you capable of a post that isn't content-free? I won't ask what you think you're achieving since a post composed entirely of questions comes across as aggressive.

 

[zenith-nadir]

In this case, the thin rope is the conviction that Israel was created as a way of assaulting Palestinians. Or Arabs, or Muslims, or dusky folk generally, whatever.

Which is inciting hatred towards Israelis using proganda because such an assertion is patently false.

I'll point out that an equally thin rope is the idea that Palestinians object to zionists because they'e Jews.

Then why do all jews have to leave Gaza? Because Palestinians do not object to zionists because they'e Jews?

Spelling corrected to :

Don't listen to him, children.

Don't read that, children.

Ad Homs are the tool of the loser.

 

[CapelDodger]

Then why do all jews have to leave Gaza? Because Palestinians do not object to zionists because they'e Jews?Ad Homs are the tool of the loser.

The "All Jews will have left Gaza" is a statement by Sharon, a zionist of some note. There will be Jews in Gaza, as there were before the zionists came from Europe to screw everything up, but they will not be Jews in Sharon's eyes - or at best will be self-hating Jews, non-zionist Jews, not proper Jews at all.

 

[demon]

CapelDodger:
"In this case, the thin rope is the conviction that Israel was created as a way of assaulting Palestinians."

I`m not sure I understand what you are saying here. I didn`t read anything like that in the article.

As you say, the evacuation might very well be accompanied by massive destruction which seems to be similar to the contention of the authors. I don`t see that as being improbable at all. Evacuate the settlers, cause havoc for the Palestinians...kill two birds with one stone.

Sharon is more than capable of creating a pretext for it. Remember Temple Mount?

Webfusion has been writing some pretty disturbing stuff on this too.

 

[CapelDodger]

So disporportionate resource consumption explains away terror attacks? How do you figure this? Are Israelis yanking groceries out of Palestinian hands at the Winn Dixie? Siphoning gas from their cars? Stealing their cable? What?

What have the settlers got in the Gaza Strip that they haven't simply taken by force from the Gazans? Not that they fight much themselves, unless they've got an isolated Arab and are mob-handed themselves. They use half the water, and their supply is never interrupted; they grow lawns to make themselves feel at home, and grub up olive-trees because they make the place look foreign. They love Israel, they just don't like the place it's in. They use religion and nationalism to cosh their children into idiocy. Who could possibly sympathise with such people?

 

[CapelDodger]

CapelDodger:
"In this case, the thin rope is the conviction that Israel was created as a way of assaulting Palestinians."

I`m not sure I understand what you are saying here. I didn`t read anything like that in the article.

We believe that one primary, unstated motive for the determination of the government of the State of Israel to get the Jewish settlers of the Qatif (Katif) settlement block out of the Gaza Strip may be to keep them out of harm's way when the Israeli government and military possibly trigger an intensified mass attack on the approximately one and a half million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, of whom about half are 1948 Palestine refugees.

Getting the settlers out of harm's way before a pre-determined assault implies that the assault on the Palestinians of Gaza is the real objective. For what reason other than to assault Palestinians for the sake of it?

 

[zenith-nadir]

The "All Jews will have left Gaza" is a statement by Sharon, a zionist of some note.

Nice attempt at a "Sharon deflection" but painfully obvious.

here will be Jews in Gaza, as there were before the zionists came from Europe to screw everything up, but they will not be Jews in Sharon's eyes

Oh really? Could you please document which jews shall be left in Gaza? Sharon deflections aside.

or at best will be self-hating Jews, non-zionist Jews, not proper Jews at all.

And it is assertions like that which put you in the same category as the authors of Demon's so-called "warning".

They use half the water, and their supply is never interrupted; they grow lawns to make themselves feel at home, and grub up olive-trees because they make the place look foreign. They love Israel, they just don't like the place it's in. They use religion and nationalism to cosh their children into idiocy. Who could possibly sympathise with such people?

How droll. It's statements like these that show your true colors.

 

[CapelDodger]

As you say, the evacuation might very well be accompanied by massive destruction which seems to be similar to the contention of the authors. I don`t see that as being improbable at all. Evacuate the settlers, cause havoc for the Palestinians...kill two birds with one stone.

One of those birds is the evacuation itself. That makes the show-of-strength a secondary purpose, not a primary purpose as claimed in the article.

The occupation of the Gaza Strip serves only to weaken Israel, just as the occupation of Southern Lebanon did. Even Sharon has come to recognise that - especially after the US sensibly demanded that there be no foreign influence in Lebanon, rather than specifically Syrian influence. The fence really is becoming a limit of Israeli ambition, and the fence was born around the Gaza Strip.

 

[CapelDodger]

Nice attempt at a "Sharon deflection" but painfully obvious.

Are you implying that Sharon isn't the source of the "there will be no Jews in Gaza" statement? Because you're sadly misled if you think so.

Oh really? Could you please document which jews shall be left in Gaza? Sharon deflections aside.

I'm hardly likely to name names, but I know Jews who are very determined to be in Gaza, with Muslim friends, after the evacuation just to flip the big finger to Sharon. That statement of his was greeted with great glee in many quarters.

How droll. It's statements like these that show your true colors.

What would those be, exactly? I've watched you dance around it for long enough : am I self-hating or anti-semitic? The first is black and crimson, the second is black and silver. Care to plump for one combination?

 

[zenith-nadir]

Are you implying that Sharon isn't the source of the "there will be no Jews in Gaza" statement? Because you're sadly misled if you think so.

So you shall deflect your Sharon deflection with another Sharon deflection. Priceless lunacy.

I'm hardly likely to name names, but I know Jews who are very determined to be in Gaza, with Muslim friends, after the evacuation just to flip the big finger to Sharon. That statement of his was greeted with great glee in many quarters.

Please name names, provide evidence that jews will live along side Palestinians after the "israelis" are cleansed from Gaza. I am all ears. Sharon reference noted.

What would those be, exactly? I've watched you dance around it for long enough : am I self-hating or anti-semitic? The first is black and crimson, the second is black and silver. Care to plump for one combination?

What no Sharon reference between the ad homs?

 

[webfusion]

naming names

"Oh really? Could you please document which jews shall be left in Gaza? Sharon deflections aside." by Z-N
I'm hardly likely to name names, but I know Jews who are very determined to be in Gaza, with Muslim friends, after the evacuation just to flip the big finger to Sharon. by C-D

• Please name names, provide evidence that jews will live along side Palestinians after the "israelis" are cleansed from Gaza. I am all ears. Sharon reference noted. by Z-N

Really, what's so difficult to provide the information?. Just post the effing link.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/601624.html

By Reuters

Jewish settler Avi Farhan, determined not to give up his home overlooking the sea when Israel quits the occupied Gaza Strip, is looking into becoming a Palestinian.
A Palestinian official said he would be welcome.
"Unlike Zionism which is religiously exclusive, Palestinian nationalism is not," said Diana Butto. "So if these settlers wish to come in and be subject to Palestinian law, then of course we welcome them."

 

[Art Vandelay]

As you say, the evacuation might very well be accompanied by massive destruction which seems to be similar to the contention of the authors.

Do you honestly not see how that is completely different from what the authors are contenting?

I don`t see that as being improbable at all. Evacuate the settlers, cause havoc for the Palestinians...kill two birds with one stone.

So is it your contention that causing havoc for the Palestinians is a policy goal of Israel?

Sharon is more than capable of creating a pretext for it. Remember Temple Mount?

What does that mean? Are you saying that the intifada was engineered by Sharon as a pretext for attacking Palestinians?

CapelDodger

Getting the settlers out of harm's way before a pre-determined assault implies that the assault on the Palestinians of Gaza is the real objective. For what reason other than to assault Palestinians for the sake of it?

Is that your position, or your interpretation of what the authors' position is?

 

[davefoc]

I was somewhat confused about what was going on in this thread but I think I agreed with ZN that the point of the opening post is bogus.

I don't think the Israelis intend the Gaza strip pullout as any kind of pretext for general violence against the Gaza strip Palestinians.

I thought webfusion's link about the Jews who want to remain was interesting. When the Gaza strip pullout has been discussed around here in the past the possibility of some Jewish Gaza strip settlers remaining behind has been mentioned and I was interested in how that might go. I wondered why the settler's that stayed would have to give up their Israeli citizenship. Does Israel demand that or is that a requirement of the Palestinian authority?

Are there Jews remaining in the Gaza strip that predated the settlements? Are there Jews in the Gaza strip that are not living in the settlements?

 

[69dodge]

Re: naming names

Originally posted by webfusion
A Palestinian official said he would be welcome.
"Unlike Zionism which is religiously exclusive, Palestinian nationalism is not," said Diana Butto. "So if these settlers wish to come in and be subject to Palestinian law, then of course we welcome them."

Sounds good.

What is Palestinian law like?

 

[CapelDodger]

CapelDodgerIs that your position, or your interpretation of what the authors' position is?

When I say the article implies something, it's clearly my interpretation. My taking issue with it was what led to the exchange with demon.

 

[CapelDodger]

Re: naming names

Really, what's so difficult to provide the information?. Just post the effing link.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/601624.html

By Reuters

Jewish settler Avi Farhan, determined not to give up his home overlooking the sea when Israel quits the occupied Gaza Strip, is looking into becoming a Palestinian.
A Palestinian official said he would be welcome.
"Unlike Zionism which is religiously exclusive, Palestinian nationalism is not," said Diana Butto. "So if these settlers wish to come in and be subject to Palestinian law, then of course we welcome them."

The people I'm referring to aren't settlers, aren't even zionists. Freedom of movement in Israel and Gaza is not a given, as pro-settler protesters have discovered. So I'm not naming names.

I don't actually know any settlers. I've met a few, but they weren't political, they were there for the subsidised housing and cheap Sephardi servants. (Russians are even cheaper, apparently, but I've been told they're untrustworthy.)