A thread in response to the UN Rape allegations thread

Cleon said:
I just did a search. The only posts with the phrase "traditional enemies of truth" have been made by you. So either you're being dishonest, or you're outright lying. Which is it?

That's odd, because I just did a search, and the first hit on "traditional enemies of truth" is this JREF thread, and then 2 and 3 are from Stormfront, talking about David Irving, 6 is an article in the Guardian on David Irving, and 7, 8, and 10 refer to the term as typically used by Holocaust deniers.
( #10 was co-written by Michael Shermer).

11 through 18, and 20 again identify the term with David Irving and Holocaust denial. 21 through 29 more of the same.

So......which is it?

http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv1-fp&p="traditional+enemies+of+truth"
 
crimresearch,
Am I missing something here. I assumed that Cleon was talking about posts on the JREF forum.

Do you think he meant that Skeptic was the only person in the whole world that had ever used that phrase or at least the only person in the whole world to put that phrase on the internet?

There may be subtle parity going on here that I am missing (my apologies for missing it if that is the case) or I am just confused as to what is being discussed?
 
davefoc said:
crimresearch,
Am I missing something here. I assumed that Cleon was talking about posts on the JREF forum.

Do you think he meant that Skeptic was the only person in the whole world that had ever used that phrase or at least the only person in the whole world to put that phrase on the internet?

There may be subtle parity going on here that I am missing (my apologies for missing it if that is the case) or I am just confused as to what is being discussed?

No, you're right, and I haven't the faintest idea what crimresearch is smoking. It can't be legal. Or healthy.
 
davefoc said:
crimresearch,
Am I missing something here. I assumed that Cleon was talking about posts on the JREF forum.

Do you think he meant that Skeptic was the only person in the whole world that had ever used that phrase or at least the only person in the whole world to put that phrase on the internet?

There may be subtle parity going on here that I am missing (my apologies for missing it if that is the case) or I am just confused as to what is being discussed?

I think that it is quite obvious that Skeptic was citing David Irving as the author of that particular phrase, and accusing AUP of using similar tactics, not the exact quoted words.

"David Irving, too, openly declares--repeatedly--that the evil jews ("traditional enemies of truth") have ganged up on him in an international conspiracy to make look like an antisemite."

In any case, after seeing the name David Irving linked to that phrase in the above sentence, Cleon chose to claim that 'a search' showed that no one but Skeptic had ever posted those words.

"I just did a search. The only posts with the phrase "traditional enemies of truth" have been made by you. So either you're being dishonest, or you're outright lying. Which is it?"

So what is honest about changing the context from whether or not that phrase is associated with David Iriving, and limiting it only to posters here, in order to claim that Skeptic was lying with his quote of David Irving?
 
That's odd, because I just did a search, and the first hit on "traditional enemies of truth" is this JREF thread, and then 2 and 3 are from Stormfront, talking about David Irving, 6 is an article in the Guardian on David Irving, and 7, 8, and 10 refer to the term as typically used by Holocaust deniers.( #10 was co-written by Michael Shermer).

Well, "for the record", Irving often uses the term to refer to jews and this is found on the web in numerous places, but I had in mind in particular Irving's use of the term in his libel suit against Lipstadt, described in that excellent book(*), "Lying About Hitler" by Evans.

In one of those ironic "operation foot bazooka" moves that characterized Irving's lawsuit, he gave the court the list of the "traditional enemies of truth" from his own website--as evidence that he is NOT an antisemite, since there were non-jewish organizations and people on that list. But as the defense attorney, QC Richard Rampton, noted, of all the dozens of "traditional enemies of truth" organizations Irving's list, every single one (apart from the Australian and Canadian governments, which, no doubt, Irving is sure are controlled by the jews anyway) was, in fact, a jewish organization.

(*)For the internet generation: Google "book" if you don't know what a book is. It's really amazing--imaging 100, 200, and even more web pages all put together in one compact place, which you can browse offline!
 
crimresearch,
Ah, I actually noticed that Cleon had done that and I agree that wasn't exactly fair.

I generally agree with Cleon and even if I don't he seems like a reasonable fellow and I just decided to give him a pass on that. Perhaps this is an example of my biases controlling my actions.

So, I guess the situation is that you were making a point using a subtle parity that I was either too biased or not intelligent enough to pick up on.

I will henceforth work harder to rise above my biases and sharpen my reasoning skills to comprehend the hidden genius of the crimresearch wit.

edited to add:
I did follow up on a few of the links from searching on "the traditional enemies of the truth". Amazingly the thread was the number one item in the list. I wonder what possible algorythm would have made that decision. It was also interesting how many wacky theories that one could read about with nothing but that as the search term.
 
davefoc said:
I will henceforth work harder to rise above my biases and sharpen my reasoning skills to comprehend the hidden genius of the crimresearch wit.

:rolleyes:

Not only you are a jerk --generally speaking-- but also you are sarcastic to crimesearch just because he spoiled it for you.
 
Cleopatra said:
:rolleyes:

Not only you are a jerk --generally speaking-- but also you are sarcastic to crimesearch just because he spoiled it for you.

Many are sarcastic towards crim, he seems to attract it. You at least owe Davefoc a reasonable explanation as to why you so obviously dislike him.
 
a_unique_person said:
Many are sarcastic towards crim, he seems to attract it. You at least owe Davefoc a reasonable explanation as to why you so obviously dislike him.
He's one of those super secret subtle anti-semites that only Cleo has the super powers to be able to sniff out..
 
a_unique_person said:
Many are sarcastic towards crim, he seems to attract it. You at least owe Davefoc a reasonable explanation as to why you so obviously dislike him.

I dislike hypocrits, bigots and gossipers.

You must have observed that smart people like epepke, crimeresearch, mycroft attract a lot of sarcasm although most of the times are polite and they can back up their opinions with reasonable arguments.

I sympathize because sometimes crimeresearch and epepke piss me off too because although they are aserbic, they are smart and they are right most of the time.How dare they?

So here is another oxymoron. Not only one can read in a skeptical forum every sort of subtle antisemitic crap but intelligence in this very forum is under prosecution especially if intelligent posters do not criticize Israel.

Crimeresearch's real crime is that he doesn't accuse Israel of ... everything( maybe he is jewish too so that makes him more evil) and he has to suffer even davefoc's sarcasm....

We have touched the nadir of absurdity...
 
a_unique_person said:
I don't think I have read one intelligent comment from crim. If you have a specific gripe about Davefoc, why not just say it?

Why don't you admit first that like Mycroft, crimeresearch piss you off with no particular reason? I mean no other reason than just disagreeing with him?
 
You are stubborn to the point of absurdity, unique. And it's ironic that you call crimeresearch "irrelevant" in the thread that caused such an upheaval.

Also, I have to say and I will report my post to bring it to Darat's attenton that I consider totally wrong the fact that the title of the thread was changed.
 
Cleopatra said:
You are stubborn to the point of absurdity, unique. And it's ironic that you call crimeresearch "irrelevant" in the thread that caused such an upheaval.

Also, I have to say and I will report my post to bring it to Darat's attenton that I consider totally wrong the fact that the title of the thread was changed.

It had absolutely nothing to do with crim.
 
Hmm,
I feel some need to clear up any ambiguities in my posts.

I enjoy Cleon's posts. I have found them to be insightful and reasonable.

I noticed that this bias in favor of Cleon might have led me to miss crimresearch's point or at least be less sensitive to what seems to be not a completely fair characterization of something skeptic said by Cleon. I also acknowledge that negative reactions to some of skeptic's previous posts and views could have served as a source of bias concerning this situation.

I am somewhat introspective about how I come to form opinions and try to the degree possible to determine what biases are driving my opinion formation. I chose to admit to those biases here because I try to be honest in this forum about the person I am.

Further I found the way crimresearch chose to make his point about Cleon so cryptic as to be just not understandable without further explanation. I chose to tell him this in what I hoped would be taken as a little good natured sarcasm. I meant no offense and it is difficult for me to see that crimresearch did take offense.
 
In 3/8 I reported my very post because I wanted to know first why the title of this thread has changed and second, since it was changed why the change wasn't indicated as it regularly happens.

Do I have to start a thread about it in the MAD area?

Thanks.
 

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