A thread in response to the UN Rape allegations thread

[Cleopatra]

You know the more I am thinking about it the more pissed off I am getting and not so much because of Unique but because of the " impartial" attitude of the others.

I expected somebody like Cleon, or demon or even Fool to post something like " Hey he made a mistake, it was an unfortunate post, let's chill out " but NO they started attacking Z-N instead!!!!

I am particularly disgusted by this comment.

Priginally posted by richardm

At a guess, I'd say it was because the people who are most vociferous in their attacks on the UN happen to be people who are most vociferous in their defence of Israel. By replacing the UN with a subject dear to their hearts, AUP was able to show how ridiculous it is to blame and dismiss an entire people (or organisation) for the actions of a few individuals. Yes, it was deliberate - that was the point; to show how misleading and inflammatory posts like the "UN are rapists" one was.

Judging by your reaction, he was clearly right on the money.

I'm aware that for some people, criticising Israel or any individual Jew in any way whatsoever is anti-semitism and indefensible, but I think in this particular case the choice was a sound one.

If this is called critical thinking then somebody might wish to notify me by an e-mail when in this forum will start posting humans and not "critical thinkers" ( my ass).

 

[The Fool]

You know the more I am thinking about it the more pissed off I am getting and not so much because of Unique but because of the " impartial" attitude of the others.

I expected somebody like Cleon, or demon or even Fool to post something like " Hey he made a mistake, it was an unfortunate post, let's chill out " but NO they started attacking Z-N instead!!!!

I am particularly disgusted by this comment.



If this is called critical thinking then somebody might wish to notify me by an e-mail when in this forum will start posting humans and not "critical thinkers" ( my ass).

The day this will happen will be the day that you decide to critisize the resident biggots for demonising arabs and muslims....or it will be the day hell freezes over, whichever comes first.

I also don't see how you can talk about "critical thinking" when you believe that you can accuse whoever you wish of anti-semitism without the inconvenience of having to show any support or evidence for the accusation...critical thinking? Lol.

 

[Lucky]

From Cleopatra:
You know the more I am thinking about it the more pissed off I am getting and not so much because of Unique but because of the " impartial" attitude of the others.

I expected somebody like Cleon, or demon or even Fool to post something like " Hey he made a mistake, it was an unfortunate post, let's chill out " but NO they started attacking Z-N instead!!!!

I agree with you. Several people jumped in and defended a_u_p (and attacked z-n, in some cases quite nastily), instead of pointing out, in a friendly manner, that a_u_p was out of line and should retreat. They are:

Ian Osborne
Megalodon
Matabiri
The Fool
(Hutch - arguable)
richardm
demon
(Kevin_Lowe – arguable)

I took Fool and richardm to task, and got far from satisfactory responses.

But, let’s not read too much into this. That’s still only eight people (and most of them didn’t say anything particularly objectionable). I don’t think you can conclude that therefore the JREF forum is anti-semitic, or anti-Israel.

Having said that, of course it is true that z-n was being attacked for being a Jew and a supporter of Israel. It happens to me, occasionally on this board (which is not much to me) and in my life (which I can’t ignore). I think we don’t lie down and die, and we don’t go in with all guns blazing. (Perhaps we can discuss this elsewhere.)

(Edited to add a name to the list.)

 

[crimresearch]

I didn't coin the phrase the 'Axis of Intolerance', and put AUP and the rest on ignore without a reason.

Interesting that some folks are seeing the real face of these hatemongers, and other are still in denial, while yet others are rallying to suport the master race baiters.

Sad really, but that is who inhabits this planet, and this forum.

 

[webfusion]

TF, was this what you had in mind?

Take a look at this thread, where I posted a newsphoto (AP) of young boys marching through the streets chanting "Death to America, Death to Israel" ----- by offering this image here, would you consider me, TF, to fall into your category of

"the resident biggots for demonising arabs and muslims..."


I am just curious.
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52823

 

[Brahe]

Newbie's Take

Man, what a thread. I don't post or read much in the Politics section, so the regulars can appreciate the enhanced impact this thread had on me.

It seems to me that aup's biggest sin was in creating such an obvious trap, though the fact that ZN fell for it proves how badly bias can blind a person. Skeptic's responses also proved...illuminating, as did his various, ah, allies.

In closing, I must single out Cleopatra. Cleopatra, you mentioned that you were "particularly disgusted" by an explanation which proved to be eminently logical and reasonable. I request that you visit talk.origins sometime as we're perpetually running low on your type. I think everyone involved would profit from the exchange.

 

[demon]

Cleo:
"I expected somebody like Cleon, or demon or even Fool to post something like " Hey he made a mistake, it was an unfortunate post, let's chill out " but NO they started attacking Z-N instead!!!!"

And damned right too as far as I`m concerned.
He`s free to defend himself anytime he likes too, complete with smilies...I really don`t care.

 

[KelvinG]

My final post.... I promise a_u_p, Cleon and the Fool, you guys "own" JREF now.

Even worse SwissSkeptic there are people defending a_u_p , a_u_p now claims he was the one wronged and some even posted that they found a_u_p's post "funny". That is what JREF has become.

Sigh. People are so quick to give the farwell speech only to return weeks/months later when cooler heads prevail.

ZN, you know you'll be back. Why let your current anger dictate behaviour which you will later regret.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Hard to understand what all the fuss is about. AUP posted an obvious parody of Skeptic's hate thread. AUP used the Israelies as the bad guys because he was parodying Skeptic who, as we all know, is a staunch supporter of anything Israeli.

So please, stop all the fake outrage.

 

[Brahe]

You've hit it right on the nose, DanishDynamite.

As you say, some people are quick to condemn AUP for the OP, even though he seriously does not hold such a position. However, these same people have said little about the subject of the parody. Although I wouldn't bet much on this inference, it does look as though the people who are so upset at this OP actually condone Skeptic's post, which is equally as bad (that was the point of this thread, after all). What can we say of people who unthinkingly and invalidly attack AUP for a position he doesn't have when they hold an equally disgusting position?

 

[KelvinG]

Hard to understand what all the fuss is about. AUP posted an obvious parody of Skeptic's hate thread. AUP used the Israelies as the bad guys because he was parodying Skeptic who, as we all know, is a staunch supporter of anything Israeli.

So please, stop all the fake outrage.

I tend to agree. I think Skeptic doesn't draw the same level of outrage because he attacks the UN, which is seen more as a faceless organization. Attack a Jew and watch out.

I'll never forget a thread from a long time back http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25530
where there was a bomb at a UN headquarter that killed some UN workers. Skeptic's response was:

Hmmmm. So, it killed only killed UN personnel? For a moment I thought it was something serious.

Skeptic immediately backtracked and tried to excuse his behaviour as you can read in the thread.
But, can you imagine the outrage, even for a second, if someone wrote after a suicide bomber killed some Israelis

Hmmm. So, it only killed Jews. For a moment I thought it was something serious.

AUP's post was indeed in poor taste, but I also believe he made the point he was trying to make. I think a lot of the outrage is because he did such a good job in making that point.

 

[crimresearch]

Hard to understand what all the fuss is about. AUP posted an obvious parody of Skeptic's hate thread. AUP used the Israelies as the bad guys because he was parodying Skeptic who, as we all know, is a staunch supporter of anything Israeli.

So please, stop all the fake outrage.

Nice try.

But Skeptic didn't post a hate thread, and neither did I.

We both brought forward legitimate news stories about the actions of UN troops and officers...

In my thread, the hatemongers like Ion rushed in to derail it, so Skeptic started a new thread, again starting with the coverage of the story.

It is no lie that these children were raped, and it is no lie that their rapists wear blue helmets.

AUP and Ion's derailments about others commiting rape, or links to porn sites about rape, or 'evidence' of soldiers in fake uniforms all serve to obfuscate and deflect attention from the legitimate news.

So do cries of 'I've been libeled', or 'It's only a parody!'.

There is however, a travesty going on here.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Nice try.

But Skeptic didn't post a hate thread, and neither did I.

Skeptic does little else.

We both brought forward legitimate news stories about the actions of UN troops and officers...

In my thread, the hatemongers like Ion rushed in to derail it, so Skeptic started a new thread, again starting with the coverage of the story.

It is no lie that these children were raped, and it is no lie that their rapists wear blue helmets.

AUP and Ion's derailments about others commiting rape, or links to porn sites about rape, or 'evidence' of soldiers in fake uniforms all serve to obfuscate and deflect attention from the legitimate news.

So do cries of 'I've been libeled', or 'It's only a parody!'.

I suppose the above is relevant somewhere, perhaps in another thread.

There is however, a travesty going on here.

My point exactly.

 

[crimresearch]

It is very relevant in this thread, where you act as an apologist for the hatemongers.

Or was there another thread where you also posted the lie that AUPs 'parody' was of a hate thread?

 

[DanishDynamite]

It is very relevant in this thread, where you act as an apologist for the hatemongers.

It is of no relevance whatsoever in this thread. This thread doesn't concern itself with whether Skeptic's original thread had any justification. It concerns itself with AUP's parody of said thread.

Or was there another thread where you also posted the lie that AUPs 'parody' was of a hate thread?

Not understood.

 

[crimresearch]

That's fantastic.

 

[DanishDynamite]

That's fantastic.

Could you expand?

 

[Cleon]

This will be my last post in this thread, because I think people have made way too much of it already.

First, I think the point AUP was trying to make is entirely valid. If you want to complain about people painting the IDF, Israel, etc. as baby killers then don't paint the entire UN as a bunch of child molesters.

However, I think the way AUP went about it was mistaken. Outside its given context--specifically, Skeptic's original thread--it looks pretty ugly. Because I had read Skeptic's ridiculous post immediately before AUP's, I picked up on the point quickly and got a little chuckle out of it. I can see how others, however, who had not seen Skeptic's post before this one would have been horribly offended. Had I been the one making the point, I would have done it in Skeptic's thread, and much more gently. I also think it went a bit too far, but I attribute that to a mistake on AUP's part rather than malice. I don't think there's a person alive who hasn't gone a tad overboard in an attempt to make a point at least once.

I do agree that people need to chill out. AUP has owned up to his mistake, let's move on. I think some of the people attacking AUP over this post aren't really that offended--they merely see it as an opportunity to lambast AUP. I think that's definitely the case with ZN, so I am certainly not lamenting his departure (if he actually departed; call me skeptical). I completely, categorically, and vociferously reject any accusation of anti-semitism made against AUP; from where I'm sitting, people are using this post as an excuse to make the charge, rather than evidence for it.

 

[demon]

Cleon:
"I do agree that people need to chill out. AUP has owned up to his mistake, let's move on. I think some of the people attacking AUP over this post aren't really that offended--they merely see it as an opportunity to lambast AUP. I think that's definitely the case with ZN, so I am certainly not lamenting his departure (if he actually departed; call me skeptical). I completely, categorically, and vociferously reject any accusation of anti-semitism made against AUP; from where I'm sitting, people are using this post as an excuse to make the charge, rather than evidence for it."

You are a good man Cleon.

 

[The Fool]

I agree with you. Several people jumped in and defended a_u_p (and attacked z-n, in some cases quite nastily), instead of pointing out, in a friendly manner, that a_u_p was out of line and should retreat. They are:

Ian Osborne
Megalodon
Matabiri
The Fool
(Hutch - arguable)
richardm
demon
(Kevin_Lowe – arguable)

I took Fool and richardm to task, and got far from satisfactory responses.

But, let’s not read too much into this. That’s still only eight people (and most of them didn’t say anything particularly objectionable). I don’t think you can conclude that therefore the JREF forum is anti-semitic, or anti-Israel.

Having said that, of course it is true that z-n was being attacked for being a Jew and a supporter of Israel. It happens to me, occasionally on this board (which is not much to me) and in my life (which I can’t ignore). I think we don’t lie down and die, and we don’t go in with all guns blazing. (Perhaps we can discuss this elsewhere.)

(Edited to add a name to the list.)

lucky you have a persecution complex the size of texas.
Zn got what he got because he is a lying hypcrite who cares nothing about racism directed at palestinians or muslims but is quick to brand any critisizm of Israeli foreign policy or zionism as racism.

An example of your persecution complex would be your statement to me when I spoke of ZN's "band of brothers" which you jumped to the (wrong) conclusion must be all jewish and started making silly comments that I cannot tell one "yid" (your term) from another. I was offended by this comment as I am offended by the constant campagn on this forum of attempting to brand anyone as anti-semitic who critisizes anyone who happens to claim to be jewish....but what do you care about that?

You seem so desperate to be persecuted that you cannot wait for it to actually happen but must create your own straw versions.
so lets get this quite clear, I took issue, and will continue to take issue with ZN(when he comes back with a lame excuse to terminate his grand exit) due to his ongoing lies and hypocrisy. If you are going to include me in a list of people you feel attacked ZN "because he was a jew" ie accuse me of racism ...I would simply ask you to show some evidence or withdraw that slur.

and in conclusion please show me ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE where you have been "attacked" on this board for being jewish...just one will do.