Merged A Thread for AlexPontik to Explain his Ideas

AlexPontik said:
<snip>


What do you think?
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I think you're putting too much weight on a pet term and the result is shallow, clumsy and lacking in insight. Even if there is some truth to what you say when you look at things a certain way, trying to make it a first principle adds nothing to understanding, and proposes nothing useful.

You can as easily say that at the root everything boils down to our desire to get laid, and there's a truth to that too, but it doesn't really tell us anything. Or you can say it all boils down to wanting to go to heaven, and there's a sort of truth to that as well, but what use it it?

I don''t know why you would think I'm upset. I disagree. If you find that an emotional issue, too bad. I don't.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, I guess that will have to be too bad, because I'm running out of way to say it.

I'm also having some nasty computer problems (my computer is not having fun at all!) so don't be offended if I can't respond further for a while.
 
Listening to Dombey and Son on spotify leads to their first conversation.

What's money father? Son is maybe 5 and goes on to question why it could not prevent the death of his mother.
 
What money does, who is good at making it, and who is an economist

What money does
When one uses money to do something, the usage of money reduces the time and effort one has to spend to do this something, because if you REALLY think otherwise…

When one uses money to do something, the usage of money doesn’t reduce the time and effort one has to spend to do this something, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when one uses money to do something, the usage of money doesn’t reduce the time and effort one has to spend to do something, it doesn’t seem to me one knows how to use money…does it seem to you…idiot?

Who is good at making money
When one is good at making money, one is good at making money again and again, because if you REALLY think other-wise…

When one is good at making money, one is not good at making money again and again, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when one is good at making money, one is not good at making money again and again, it doesn’t seem to me that the rest around one think one is good at making money…does it seem to you…idiot?

Who is an economist
When one is an economist, one knows what money does, and who is good at making it, because if you REALLY think oth-erwise…

When one is an economist, one doesn’t know what money does, or doesn’t know who is good at making it, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when one is an economist, one doesn’t know what money does, or doesn’t know who is good at making it, it doesn’t seem to me that when the economy isn’t working we all don’t know why that is…does it seem to you…idiot?
 
Those who use their will to spread their sadness are sad jokers!.. Cause they take the mind of others off all the joy …
That something else than sadness comes…BOOH re sad jokers!.. you don’t know how to have fun reeee…

Store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account…
tell that next time to your girl after you give her money and …
… the way you do it…happens to increase the time and effort she needs to spend to have fun…
 
AlexPontik said:
If in the end, when one uses money to do something, the usage of money doesn’t reduce the time and effort one has to spend to do something, it doesn’t seem to me one knows how to use money…does it seem to you…
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Most of this pontificating isn't really worth a second glance but I will address this point for you.

When one uses money, one can spend more time doing the things that they are good at and less time doing the things that they are bad at. Overall, everybody spends less time and effort doing things because the things they do they are good at (and they trade money for the other things).

AlexPontik said:
...idiot?
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indeed.
 
Store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account…
tell that next time to your girl after you give her money and …
… the way you do it…happens to increase the time and effort she needs to spend to have fun…

if you don't have a girl...try to imagine it sad jokers...
 
AlexPontik said:
you give her money and …
… the way you do it…happens to increase the time and effort she needs to spend to have fun…
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I know what you mean.

People think that having money will enable them to have more fun with less time and effort, but a lot of the time it doesn't work out that way.

You work hard at a job you don't like, but stick to it by dreaming about what you can do with the money. What you really want is to enjoy some relaxed fishing on the lake. So you take your hard-earned money and buy a boat. But the nearest lake is 500 miles away over a mountain, so you also need to buy a trailer and a truck to tow it. After many more hours working at your awful job you finally have enough money to buy the truck, the trailer, and everything else you need to go fishing.

That weekend your dream comes true. You get up early in the morning, hook the boat up to the truck and off you go. It was a long hard drive but eventually you get there, just in time for a few minutes fishing before dark. The next day you don't get up early because who wants to do that when you're supposed to be relaxing, so you don't have time for any more fishing because you have to be back at work on Monday.

All your friends wish they were rich like you so they could have their own boat and enjoy fishing on the lake. But what you dare not tell them is that it's actually a drag. 363 days of the year the boat sits around doing nothing but taking up space. The truck is too big to fit in the garage and needs a lot of money to maintain. The insurance bills are obscene. You spent all that time and effort to have fun, but ended up with a millstone around your neck.
 
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AlexPontik said:
If in the end, when one is an economist, one doesn’t know what money does, or doesn’t know who is good at making it, it doesn’t seem to me that when the economy isn’t working we all don’t know why that is…
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Actually we do why that is, just like the manic depressive knows why he is feeling down. The problem is that - like him - we don't want to take our meds because then we won't get the highs.

Economists generally know what is needed to make an economy work. But people aren't satisfied with that. They want growth, not stagnation. They want an economy that creates wealth out of nothing while consuming nonrenewable resources and making externalities 'disappear'. They want to get a return on their investment without spending any time or effort. And they all want to be a bit richer than their neighbors.
 
AlexPontik said:
Those who use their will to spread their sadness are sad jokers!.. Cause they take the mind of others off all the joy …
That something else than sadness comes…BOOH re sad jokers!.. you don’t know how to have fun reeee…

Store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account…
tell that next time to your girl after you give her money and …
… the way you do it…happens to increase the time and effort she needs to spend to have fun…
Click to expand...

Wait. Are you claiming to be a virgin?
 
I didn't read what you wrote, but I finished the full argument for you geniuses here...time to read boys and girls...waiting...


What money does
When one uses money to do something, the usage of money reduces the time and effort one has to spend to do this something, because if you REALLY think otherwise…

When one uses money to do something, the usage of money doesn’t reduce the time and effort one has to spend to do this something, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when one uses money to do something, the usage of money doesn’t reduce the time and effort one has to spend to do something, it doesn’t seem to me one knows how to use money…does it seem to you…idiot?

(Store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account…tell that next time to your girl after you give her money and …
… the way you do it…happens to increase the time and effort she needs to spend to have fun…)

Who is good at making money
When one is good at making money, one is good at making money again and again, because if you REALLY think other-wise…

When one is good at making money, one is not good at making money again and again, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when one is good at making money, one is not good at making money again and again, it doesn’t seem to me that the rest around one think one is good at making money…does it seem to you…idiot?

Who is an economist
When one is an economist, one knows what money does, and who is good at making it, because if you REALLY think oth-erwise…

When one is an economist, one doesn’t know what money does, or doesn’t know who is good at making it, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when one is an economist, one doesn’t know what money does, or doesn’t know who is good at making it, it doesn’t seem to me that when the economy isn’t working we all don’t know why that is…does it seem to you…idiot?

When is the economy not working
When the economy isn’t working, among those who have money, apart from those good at making money, the rest of them are not good at making money, because if you REALLY think otherwise…

When the economy isn’t working, among those who have money, apart from those good at making money, the rest of them are good at making money, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when the economy isn’t working, among those who have money, apart from those good at making money, the rest of them are good at making money, it doesn’t seem to me that those who don’t have money think that…does it seem to you…idiot?

When is common sense working
When common sense is working, few are offended, and most follow it, because if you REALLY think otherwise…

When common sense is working, most are offended, or few follow it, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when common sense is working, most are offended, or few follow it, it doesn’t seem to me what most are together follow…does it seem to you…idiot?

But what if someone doesn’t understand and gets angry?
After one gets angry, some time has to pass for that one to relax, because if you REALLY think otherwise…

After one gets angry, some time doesn’t have to pass for that one to relax, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, after one gets angry, some time doesn’t have to pass for that one to relax, it doesn’t seem to me that one isn’t constantly angry…does it seem to you…idiot?

this is what happens for the ones that don't understand, for the rest one have a good day and a great weekend!

But what if one doesn’t want to understand, and that is a problem for the rest ones?
When one doesn’t want to understand, and that is a problem for the rest ones, the rest ones make one understand, because if you REALLY think otherwise…

When one doesn’t want to understand, and that is a problem for the rest ones, the rest ones don’t make one under-stand, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when one doesn’t want to understand, and that is a problem for the rest ones, the rest ones don’t make one understand, it doesn’t seem to me that one isn’t making the rest understand…does it seem to you…idiot?

But what if one can’t understand what seems to be happening?
When one can’t understand what seems to be happening, what seems to be happening changes for one, because if you REALLY think otherwise…

When one can’t understand what seems to be happening, what seems to be happening doesn’t change for one, but if you think this is REALLY ok for you…

If in the end, when one can’t understand what seems to be happening, what seems to be happening doesn’t change for one, it doesn’t seem to me that something else than what one can imagine isn’t still what seems to be REALLY hap-pening…does it seem to you…idiot?
 
I didn't bother reading the responses to my gibberish, but here's more gibberish.

Brilliant. That is just so perfect. *Chef's kiss*
 
AlexPontik said:
I didn't read what you wrote, but I finished the full argument
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What argument?

When is common sense working
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Good question, but you don't seem to have the answer (or if you do, you can't communicate it).


But what if someone doesn’t understand and gets angry?
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Please stop shouting. It makes you sound angry, and doesn't make your argument any less incomprehensible.
 
Please stop replying, read again, and think...

...it's not as hard as it looks...

...for the love of God you all...
 
Your language is clumsy and hard to read. Putting the same things in bold type does not constitute an improvement in quality.

From what I see, most of what is said is that words mean what they mean, and not the opposite of what they mean. It is true that this is not very hard, but it is also not very interesting.
 
We are doing the following thought experiment in the steps described below (with some instructions as well).


1.Imagine that you do something,
instructions 1: feel free to imagine, following the steps and instructions below from beggining until the end.


2.You do this something that you imagine in two different ways from its beginning until its end
instructions 2: you can come back to me with two stories, each with a beginning and and end, about something done in two different ways from its beginning until its end.


3.First you do it with money from its beginning until its end
instructions 3:
Trade is happening in the first story with money.

Clarifications...
This means that, either you do something for another, and another gives the agreed amount of money to you,
or another does something for you, and you give another the agreed amount of money to another...and the agreed amount of money...
is the amount of money you and another...agreed in order to trade.



4.Secondly you do it without money from its beginning until its end
instructions 4:
Trade is happening in the second story without money.

This mean that, you do this for another and another does that for you, and money isn't involved between the two of you, in the second story.



5. For the second way when you do it without money, you have to spend less time and effort to do it, from its beginning until its end
how to imagine:
In the first story when you do it with money, you have to spend more time and effort to do it, from its beginning until its end


6. I wonder would you say you are using your money wisely?

7. Because if you would, wait a minute before you start replying, and listen to me.

In both stories that you can come back to me, you are trading with another.

In one of the stories, you have to spend more time and effort, to do what you freely imagined you do with another, plus you have to also use money on top of having to spend more time and effort to do it, unlike the way you do it in the other story.

In the other story, you have to spend less time and effort, to do what you freely imagined you do with another, and as you also have to not use money in the second story, you don't have to spend time and effort to use money, unlike the way you do it in one of the stories.


8. So it seems to me that the other story, and not one of the stories, is what you would be looking for...if it seems sensible to you to spend less time and effort, and not get caught up in one of those stories...you know the ones I'm talking about, no?.. if not I am talking about one of the stories where you have to spend endless time and effort even for the simplest of things.

And this is why it seems to me that money reduces time and effort spend to trade, but...

...let me also get your view...

...what is it in the above that you don't understand?
 
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AlexPontik said:
We are doing the following thought experiment in the steps described below (with some instructions as well).


1.Imagine that you do something,
instructions 1: feel free to imagine, following the steps and instructions below from beggining [sic] until the end.
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Ok. I need to replace a toilet.

2.You do this something that you imagine in two different ways from its beginning until its end
instructions 2: you can come back to me with two stories, each with a beginning and and end, about something done in two different ways from its beginning until its end.
Click to expand...
That sentence is poorly written.
I can either do the replacement with a standard toilet or a high efficiency toilet.

3.First you do it with money from its beginning until its end
instructions 3:
Trade is happening in the first story with money.

Clarifications...
This means that, either you do something for another, and another gives the agreed amount of money to you,
or another does something for you, and you give another the agreed amount of money to another...and the agreed amount of money...
is the amount of money you and another...agreed in order to trade.
Click to expand...
Easy. I go to work. I get wages. I go to the home improvement store, buy the tools and materials with my wages and install the toilet. I will call this the "Money Story".

4.Secondly you do it without money from its beginning until its end
instructions 4:
Trade is happening in the second story without money.

This mean that, you do this for another and another does that for you, and money isn't involved between the two of you, in the second story.
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I am doing this job for me. How can I "do this for another"? This will not happen. The home improvement store will not sell me tools and materials without money. Without money my toilet will remain broken. This will be the "Free Story".
5. For the second way when you do it without money, you have to spend less time and effort to do it, from its beginning until its end
how to imagine:
In the first story when you do it with money, you have to spend more time and effort to do it, from its beginning until its end
Click to expand...
Your thought process is flawed. I cannot buy tools and materials without money. I cannot do the replacement. You falsely compare the absence of something to the absence of something else. For example, I can complain that I do not have any custom dragon riding saddles because I do not have any 21 leaf clovers. When I work, I get money. I spend my money how I wish. I have already provided my employer with work.

Nothing gets done based on the Free Story. I will still have a toilet to replace.


6. I wonder would you say you are using your money wisely?
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Yes, because I am replacing a toilet. A way I would be using my money foolishly would be to get toilet made out of wax paper, cotton balls, or a solid gold toilet. A ceramic toilet will be much stronger and will be more durable.

7. Because if you would, wait a minute before you start replying, and listen to me.
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I already have.

In both stories that you can come back to me, you are trading with another.

In one of the stories, you have to spend more time and effort, to do what you freely imagined you do with another, plus you have to also use money on top of having to spend more time and effort to do it, unlike the way you do it in the other story.

In the other story, you have to spend less time and effort, to do what you freely imagined you do with another, and as you also have to not use money in the second story, you don't have to spend time and effort to use money, unlike the way you do it in one of the stories.
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This is not correct. I am not trading anything in the Free Story. I cannot get the tools and materials. In the Money Story things get done. In the Free Story, nothing gets done. The rest of your scenario fails.



8. So it seems to me that the other story, and not one of the
stories, is what you would be looking for...if it seems sensible to you to spend less time and effort, and not get caught up in one of those stories...you know the ones I'm talking about, no?.. if not I am talking about one of the stories where you have to spend endless time and effort even for the simplest of things.

And this is why it seems to me that money reduces time and effort spend to trade, but...

...let me also get your view...

...what is it in the above that you don't understand?
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"...the other story, and not one of the stories" is wrong and does not parse into English correctly.

Your whole thought process is wrong. I use money to pay for someone to make the ceramic toilet, the wax seal, the metal screws, the plastic seat and screws, and the paper instructions. If I do not pay I do not get any of those things.

If I teach my neighbor how to play a guitar, and she will make me a shirt, my toilet is still broken.

Please try again. If you need to, try using one of the online translators. You might even try posting in your native language so we can run it through.
 
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