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A thread about hypnosis

Senex

Philosopher
Senex
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
6,061
Location
The Connecticut School for Rumpology.
I was terribly interested in the limits of stage hypnotist's abilities from a young age. I believe I now know these limits (Kreskin isn't ruling the world is he?). Stage hypnotism is strictly about entertainment. Anything that may fall under "real" hypnotism during a performance is strictly coincidental.

There are some psychologists who believe that hypnotherapy is a valid method of therapy that may help many (hypnotherapy may help too many problems for me to itemize). Some people believe hypnosis can help people recollect details of a past event. Some people believe hypnosis can make anesthesia a thing of the past for minor surgery.

Some people make stronger arguments for the value of hypnosis than these examples (remembering past lives as an example). Hypnosis is a valid topic for the JREF. Placebo or something real -- what do you think?.
 
Hypnosis ... whatever it is, it seems to have much in common with what happens when an evangelist taps someone on the head and they fall down.

Stage tricks.
 
Many many years ago, while my sister was undergoing surgery in Stanford's Children Hospital, I recall meeting the family of a woman being taken into surgery who was going to attempt to use self-hypnosis for pain control without anesthesia. I wish I knew the outcome.
 
ExMinister said:
Many many years ago, while my sister was undergoing surgery in Stanford's Children Hospital, I recall meeting the family of a woman being taken into surgery who was going to attempt to use self-hypnosis for pain control without anesthesia. I wish I knew the outcome.
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That's not unheard of (for dentistry and minor surgery). Elite soldiers are taught methods to ignore (compartmentalize) pain.

I'll take the novacane myself -- but maybe I'm being lazy by not learning self-hypnotic techniques.
 
Interesting, Senex.

I thought of that woman again when I went into labor - both times, wondering if she'd succeeded. I also recall a new age author/lecturer who claimed to have had kidney stones removed and that she needed no pain medication following the surgery, having used self-hypnosis. I was never sure I entirely believed that.

I wonder if it is possible to use self-hypnosis techniques to experience no labor pains.

My husband did hypnotherapy and I'm familiar with how it's done, even tried to use self-hypnosis to quit smoking and for various other things, but never could I go "deep enough" that I wouldn't experience pain - especially labor pain. But I suspect some people may be better at it than others.

I no longer think I would trust it to aid in recall of past memories. Too much scary stuff has gone on with the recovered memory movement, at times there is a lot at stake, and it is just too hard to tell what is imagination or suggestion and what is real.
 
A rather long time ago, the 70s or thereabouts, I read a book on the forensic use of hypnosis. The idea of hypnotizing a witness to obtain information that the individual could not consciously recall...Stuff like that.
As I recall, the results were essentially inconclusive.
Also, (according to this book) only a certain percentage of the population is capable of being properly hypnotized.
 
I want you all to "hypnotize" someone if you will. I'll wait.

Now when the session is over I would like you to ask the subject(s) if they felt good and "hypnotized" What do you think they'll say after this little performance when asked?

Of course they will say they were "hypnotized"

Now ask a different subject, or the same, If, instead, they simply felt they were going along with the performance as best they could, or truly felt they were in the suggestive grasp of "hypnosis".

As for pain I have no doubt that the human mind could suppress it with effort.
 
I've always wondered about the "certain percentage of the population" bit. How could that be known?

I once tried hypnosis (a doctor's advice) to help me with my writer's cramp. I really was willing and co-operative and WANTED so badly to be hypnotized. It didn't work.

It didn't work for ten sessions. So I know the "you have to be willing" thing is bogus.
 
I can see how putting a patient into a state where they are highly suggestable and associative might be useful to a psychotherapist. Getting them drunk would accomplish the same thing, but damn those professional ethics.
 
Mike Heap has an excellent site at http://www.mheap.com/

Personally, I generally start discussions on the matter by trying to get people to write down exactly what the symptoms, observables, whatever of a person in hypnosis are, and then we've got a position to start from.

If I say I think hypnosis is real but isn't a substantially altered state, and doesn't mean you absolutely have to do what the hypnotist says, then someone who might think hypnosis doesn't exist might actually agree with me, as I also don't think that what they think hypnosis is exists either.

To put it another way, the popular view of hypnosis is twaddle, but that doesn't mean that there aren't interesting things going on sometimes.

It's such a bag of related phenomena, aggravated by cultural expectations and misunderstandings it's very hard to say anything definite.
 
ExMinister said:
Interesting, Senex.

I thought of that woman again when I went into labor - both times, wondering if she'd succeeded. I also recall a new age author/lecturer who claimed to have had kidney stones removed and that she needed no pain medication following the surgery, having used self-hypnosis. I was never sure I entirely believed that.

I wonder if it is possible to use self-hypnosis techniques to experience no labor pains.
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Hypnosis may make you stoic in the face of labor pains -- however it does nothing to make the pain non-existant
I no longer think I would trust it to aid in recall of past memories. Too much scary stuff has gone on with the recovered memory movement, at times there is a lot at stake, and it is just too hard to tell what is imagination or suggestion and what is real.
Click to expand...
Hypnosis and suggestion equal unreliable memory. No doubt.

Bikewer said:
A rather long time ago, the 70s or thereabouts, I read a book on the forensic use of hypnosis. The idea of hypnotizing a witness to obtain information that the individual could not consciously recall...Stuff like that.
As I recall, the results were essentially inconclusive.
Also, (according to this book) only a certain percentage of the population is capable of being properly hypnotized.
Click to expand...
Testimony from a person who needed hypnosis to testify isn't inconclusive -- it is true bulloney.

Also, what percentage of the populatation can be properly hypnotized is bulloney because "properly hypnotized" is meaningless.

Minarvia said:
I've always wondered about the "certain percentage of the population" bit. How could that be known?

I once tried hypnosis (a doctor's advice) to help me with my writer's cramp. I really was willing and co-operative and WANTED so badly to be hypnotized. It didn't work.

It didn't work for ten sessions. So I know the "you have to be willing" thing is bogus.
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Wow, ten sessions shows you gave it a chance. (What is writer's cramp?)

Tricky said:
I can see how putting a patient into a state where they are highly suggestable and associative might be useful to a psychotherapist. Getting them drunk would accomplish the same thing, but damn those professional ethics.
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If I only knew how to hypnotize myself my booze bill would be less.

brazilianevil said:
If you want hypnosis, look for Milton Erickson
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Erickson's methods are considered woo to many hypnotherapists who don't accept confusion induction techniques.

Hypnosis is as hard to defend as it is to dismiss.
 
Minarvia said:
I've always wondered about the "certain percentage of the population" bit. How could that be known?

I once tried hypnosis (a doctor's advice) to help me with my writer's cramp. I really was willing and co-operative and WANTED so badly to be hypnotized. It didn't work.

It didn't work for ten sessions. So I know the "you have to be willing" thing is bogus.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think if it didn't work for you after 10 sessions, you will hardly make it with this doc. Did you remember everything he said to you? I mean the instructions.
 
Short answer: Whether or not hypnosis works depends entirely on how you define the words "hypnosis" and "works," both of which are maddeningly malleable.

The first hypnosis book I ever read claimed that if you read ten different books on hypnosis, you would get ten different definitions of it. Then as I read more, I realized that even that wasn't true; you wouldn't get ten different definitions at all. What you would get instead would be ten different ways of explaining that if you read ten different books, you would get ten different definitions; that is, ten different ways of dodging the issue.
 
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Quinn said:
Short answer: Whether or not hypnosis works depends entirely on how you define the words "hypnosis" and "works," both of which are maddeningly malleable.

The first hypnosis book I ever read claimed that if you read ten different books on hypnosis, you would get ten different definitions of it. Then as I read more, I realized that even that wasn't true; you wouldn't get ten different definitions at all. What you would get instead would be ten different ways of explaining that if you read ten different books, you would get ten different definitions; that is, ten different ways of dodging the issue.
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That's the truth. Who brought this stupid topic up?

However, it can't be completely dismissed. (or can it?)

I'd like people to discuss personal hypnotic experiences.
 
I preform stage hypnosis, (not lately, though, because of work and some other things). So I will tell you the keys to hypnosis:

A) The subject wants it work.
B) The subject is relaxed enough.
C) The hypnotist exudes confidence that it will work.

It's nothing woo, it's nothing magical. We all achieve the same "state" (for lack of a better word) when reading a book, watching television, concentrating on a problem, etc.

In fact, when I perform, I tell my audience that it's exactly like going to the movies: you sit in a comfortable chair, with loud music and a big screen; you laugh at the funny scenes, you cry at the sad scenes, your heart races during the car chases and dramatic scenes, and during the whole time, you never notice the guy two rows in front of you eating his popcorn loudly. :)
 
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