A-Teams accusation

[firecoins]

can't speak for all "CTers," but I have no problem with the recording of Ong's call or its obvious implication that there were hijackers on the plane. There were hijackers, but we have no proof that they were who the official story says they were.

It is not disputed that Ong reported the hijackers coming from seats 9A, 9B, 2A and 2B. The latter two seats were assigned to brothers Wail and Waleed al-Shehri, who both turned up alive in Saudi Arabia. There may be others with the same name, but the pictures displayed by the FBI are of the still alive brothers. Both of them are pilots who visited the US and may have had their identities stolen there.

Seat 9B was assigned to Daniel Lewin, a dual Israeli-American citizen who was a captain in the elite Israeli commando unit Sayerat Metkal.

Seat 9A was assigned to Edmund Glazer, who was CFO of MRV Communications. This company was controlled by Noam Lotan (CEO) and Shlomo Margalit (Board of Directors-Chairman), both of whom have connections to Israel.

http://www.mrv.com/corporate/leadership/noam.php
http://www.mrv.com/corporate/leadership/shlomo.php

Betty Ong also stated there was an injured passenger in seat 10B, assigned to Satam al Suqami.

I've always thought it strange that Ong's call was not recorded in its entirety. I'd like to hear more about the guest on Maher's show who said it was edited.

discuss.

 

[rwguinn]

discuss.

no.

 

[Firestone]

discuss.

A-Trains grotesque theory has been discussed in the "Questions for 9/11 Truthers"-thread, starting here.

If you have the patience to go through it, you'll see that NOTHING, and I really mean NOTHING, of this theory has resisted any scrutiny.

It's an absurd and baseless theory, only meant to put the blame on the evil "Zionists".

 

[firecoins]

I haven't read any truther argument that really has something to it. I just wanted to give this guy his own thread.

 

[A-Train]

This isn't my "accusation," guys; it isn't even a theory. I'm only reporting what Betty Ong reported in her phone call from AAL11.

 

[firecoins]

It is not disputed that Ong reported the hijackers coming from seats 9A, 9B, 2A and 2B. The latter two seats were assigned to brothers Wail and Waleed al-Shehri, who both turned up alive in Saudi Arabia. There may be others with the same name, but the pictures displayed by the FBI are of the still alive brothers. Both of them are pilots who visited the US and may have had their identities stolen there.

Your saying that the 2 exact guys on identified as attackers on flight 11 are alive. Your saying the government is lying. That is an accusation. All reports that any of the hijackers have been found alive have proven false so far.

Show us the FBI pictures pre 9/11 and the 2 guys in Saudi in pictures taken since. It would be better if they themselves were produced to get their testimony of events.

 

[Kiwiwriter]

Still haven't answered my questions...

This isn't my "accusation," guys; it isn't even a theory. I'm only reporting what Betty Ong reported in her phone call from AAL11.

About what you think about Hitler, Nazis, Jews, and the Holocaust.

Here's a simple one: What should be the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question?"

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Your saying that the 2 exact guys on identified as attackers on flight 11 are alive. Your saying the government is lying. That is an accusation. All reports that any of the hijackers have been found alive have proven false so far.

Show us the FBI pictures pre 9/11 and the 2 guys in Saudi in pictures taken since. It would be better if they themselves were produced to get their testimony of events.

I just did a Canada-wide search on the Canadian web phone directory and find there are 7 alShehris in Canada. None a "W". So I guess they still must be in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Augustine]

Soooo....let me get this straight....these 2 guys dressed up like Arabs and fooled everyone into thinking they were Saudi Arabian guys...riiiiight....

 

[MikeW]

Just about the only thing left in the Waleed al Shehri "still alive" story is the claim that the BBC's al Shehri has the same photograph as used by the FBI. That idea is weak right now, because he says his photo appeared in the week after 9/11, but the FBI didn't produce their photo list until the 27th. Some of the images were available before then, but not that early, not al Shehri (as far as I know).

Anyway, I'm hoping to have more news on this soon. Within the next 3-4 weeks I should be getting the video report that showed the first media (not FBI)-sourced pics of 8 of the hijackers, Waleed al Shehri amongst them. If that shows the FBI pic then the truthers still have a story, though with many problems; but if it shows a different guy, then this particular claim is dead & buried.

 

[A-Train]

Soooo....let me get this straight....these 2 guys dressed up like Arabs and fooled everyone into thinking they were Saudi Arabian guys...riiiiight....

No, the three "Arabs" on AAL11 may have been the two sitting in the seats 2A and 2B reported by Ong, that would be whoever bought the tickets in the names of Wail and Waleed Alshehri, and whoever bought the ticket in the name of "Abdul Alomari," sitting in seat 9G.

Abdulaziz Alomari is alive and working as a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines [New York Times, 9/16/2001; Independent, 9/17/2001; BBC, 9/23/2001] He claims that his passport was stolen in 1995 while he was living in Denver, Colorado. [Los Angeles Times, 9/21/2001] “They gave my name and my date of birth, but I am not a suicide bomber. I am here. I am alive.” [London Times, 9/20/2001; Daily Telegraph, 9/23/2001]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...1_timeline&the_post-9/11_world=investigations

So the hijackers might have been divided into two teams: one team of highly trained professionals who shoot the pilots and commandeer the cockpit, and another team of "Arabs" who run around the cabin stabbing stewardesses and showing off their fake bomb, all part of a mock-Arab stage show to frame Arabs, and all done while the first team of hijackers is in the cockpit, invisible to the passengers.

As for Atta and Suqami, they may have been genuinely on the plane. Their role was as patsies, as indicated by the fact that Suqami was apparently shot at the hijacking's outset.

 

[firecoins]

I thought you wern't making accusations?

All of your stories has been disproved. Every newspaper has printed retractions. There no pictures of any these post 9/11.

 

[Gravy]

This isn't my "accusation," guys; it isn't even a theory. I'm only reporting what Betty Ong reported in her phone call from AAL11.

Betty Ong said the hijackers are alive today? Remarkable.

 

[gumboot]

No, the three "Arabs" on AAL11 may have been the two sitting in the seats 2A and 2B reported by Ong, that would be whoever bought the tickets in the names of Wail and Waleed Alshehri, and whoever bought the ticket in the name of "Abdul Alomari," sitting in seat 9G.

So the hijackers might have been divided into two teams: one team of highly trained professionals who shoot the pilots and commandeer the cockpit, and another team of "Arabs" who run around the cabin stabbing stewardesses and showing off their fake bomb, all part of a mock-Arab stage show to frame Arabs, and all done while the first team of hijackers is in the cockpit, invisible to the passengers.

As for Atta and Suqami, they may have been genuinely on the plane. Their role was as patsies, as indicated by the fact that Suqami was apparently shot at the hijacking's outset.

"Alomari" was not one of the hijackers. You should probably read the newspaper articles you link to. From the NYT article:

Authorities say case of mistaken identity has led FBI to search former home and to interview friends of Abdul Rahman Alomari, Saudi Arabian pilot whose name is similar to one used by one of hijackers of first plane to crash into World Trade Center, Abdulaziz al-Omari.

Adbulaziz al-Omari was a member of Al Qaeda and appears in a Martyr Video.

Abdul Rahman Alomari is, as mentioned, a Saudi Arabian pilot, is still alive, and has no links to terrorism.

Abdul Alomari came forward after the incorrect name was released. Although the name, date of birth, origin, and occupation were the same, the photograph released by the FBI was not of Alomari.

The FBI immediately issued an apology and updated their information.

al-Omari's identity and death has since been confirmed by the Saudi Arabian government and members of his own family.

-Gumboot

 

[Unsecured Coins]

according to whitepages.com.. Betty Ong lives in
Colton, Ca
South San Fransisco, Ca
Atlanta, GA
East Lansing, MI
Saint Paul, MN
and New York, NY

So, does this mean Betty faked her death? and is living in 6 different places at the same time?

 

[firecoins]

according to whitepages.com.. Betty Ong lives in
Colton, Ca
South San Fransisco, Ca
Atlanta, GA
East Lansing, MI
Saint Paul, MN
and New York, NY

So, does this mean Betty faked her death? and is living in 6 different places at the same time?

she must have been paid off and has 6 homes now.

 

[Firestone]

This isn't my "accusation," guys; it isn't even a theory. I'm only reporting what Betty Ong reported in her phone call from AAL11.

No, you are not "reporting what Betty Ong reported in her phone call from AAL11".

You are cherry picking information and ignoring everything that doesn't suit you.

First you totally ignore Madeline Sweeney's phone call, because it doesn't fit with your theory.
But even on Betty Ong's phone call, you are ... disingenious (I'm a polite gal).

(For the record, according to the (unofficial) flight manifests, Daniel Lewin was in seat 9B, Suqami in seat 10B.)

The only primary source I found claiming Betty Ong places the wounded passenger in seat 10B is this article in the Boston Globe:

As the hijacking unfolded, Ong punched the number 8 on a seatback GTE Airfone and got through to an American reservations agent. The agent called the system operations control center in Fort Worth at 8:27.

"She said two flight attendants had been stabbed, one was on oxygen," said Craig Marquis, the manager on duty. "A passenger had his throat slashed and looked dead and they had gotten into the cockpit."

Ong said the four hijackers had come from first-class seats: 2A, 2B, 9A, and 9B. She said the wounded passenger was in seat 10B.

But you never mention the much more detailled account of Ong's and Sweeney's phone calls given here.

I'll quote the relevant parts.

8:19 A.M.50 Flight attendant Betty Ong contacted the American Airlines Southeastern Reservations Office in Cary, North Carolina, via AT&T air phone to report an emergency aboard the flight. Flight attendants know the reservations 800 number because they call it frequently to help passengers with reservations questions. Calls to the number are routed to the first open line at one of several facilities, including the one in Cary.

The emergency call from Betty Ong lasted approximately 25 minutes (8:19 A.M.-8:44 A.M.). Ong relayed vital information about events taking place aboard the airplane to authorities on the ground. Her call was received initially at the reservations office by an American Airlines employee. The call was transferred to another employee who, realizing the urgency of the situation, pushed an emergency button that simultaneously initiated a tape recording of the call and sent an alarm notifying Nydia Gonzalez, the reservations office supervisor, to pick up on the line. Gonzalez was paged to respond to the alarm and joined the call a short time later. Only the first four minutes of the phone call between Ong and the reservations center was tape-recorded because the recently installed recording system at that time contained a default time limit.

8:19 A.M. Ong reported, "The cockpit is not answering, somebody's stabbed in business class-and I think there's mace-that we can't breathe-I don't know, I think we're getting hijacked."
While the reported "stabbing" in business class may have been an attack on the flight attendants, or on an unnamed victim, this may quite possibly have been the initial report of the attack (recounted with more specificity later) on a passenger in business class, seated in 9B-directly behind Atta and Omari, and in front of Suqami. The passenger was a 31-year-old man who had served four years as an officer in the Israeli military.
...
Also at 8:32 A.M., the American Airlines flight service manager at Logan, Michael Woodward, returned to his office and discovered that Sweeney had called again and was speaking with an employee in the office. Woodward, who was a friend of Sweeney's, took over the call. Sweeney said that she was sitting in the back of the plane next to Ong, who was still on the phone with Gonzalez.

The phone call between Sweeney and Woodward lasted approximately 12 minutes. It was not taped. According to Woodward, Sweeney was calm and collected. She provided the following information: she was sitting in the back of the aircraft next to Betty Ong; the plane had been hijacked; a man in first class had had his throat slashed; two flight attendants had been stabbed-one flight attendant had been stabbed seriously and was on oxygen while another flight attendant's wounds were not as serious and seemed to be okay; a doctor had been paged; the flight attendants were unable to contact the cockpit; and there was a bomb in the cockpit.
Sweeney told Woodward that she and Ong were trying to relay as much information as they could to people on the ground.
...
Also at 8:33 A.M., Gonzalez received a report from Ong providing the first indication of a fatality on board. Gonzalez passed the information on to Marquis at 8:34 A.M. as follows:
"They think they might have a fatality on the flight. One of our passengers, possibly on 9B, Levin or Lewis, might have been fatally stabbed."
...
8:35 A.M. Gonzalez confirmed the details of a report by Ong regarding the identity of one of the hijackers: "He's the one that's in the-he's in the cockpit. Okay you said Tom Sukani? Okay-Okay and he was in 10B. Okay, okay, so he's one of the persons that are in the cockpit. And as far as weapons, all they have are just knives?"

8:36 A.M. Marquis received Gonzalez's report about the hijacker she referred to as "Tom al Sukani" (i.e., Satam al Suqami), who had been seated in 10B.

(bolding mine)
This leaves no doubt whatsoever.
The murderered passenger was indeed Daniel Lewin.

Your claims about the "living hijackers" have already been addressed and are in effect self-debunking.

You have nothing, A-Train, but your delusions.

 

[Larry Lovage]

There may be others with the same name, but the pictures displayed by the FBI are of the still alive brothers.

Ha, unfortunately that's a false leap of logic. The BBC story that Walid Al-Shehri was still alive was illustrated with a picture... but it's the FBI's picture they illustrate the story with, not any picture of the Walid Al-Shehri they spoke to in the course of the story. I suspect the reporter who talked to him instantly saw that he wasn't the same guy, but didn't provide a photograph of his interviewee because it would kill his story. This kind of thing leads to a cast iron belief that CTers have "seen" the Walid Al-Shehri.

If anybody can provide an actual picture of the alive Al Shehri (or whoever), we can make an actual decision. However, the picture on the BBC story is of the dead guy.

On the BBC Conspiracies documentary, some truthers have complained that the programme doesn't examine the "hijackers are still alive". I myself thought that was effectively covered when they demonstrated that the people the FBI had identified as eventual hijackers could be found on CCTV coverage (like at ATMs etc). How this tallies with claims of people like the innocent Al-Shehri who had never been to the states is something the Truthers don't have an explanation for.


People are more than names. People move in society. We can be quite sure that the people the FBI identified are known to be dead because their known friends, families and associates have heard nothing from them. Those people know that the "alive hijackers" are not the people that they knew, who are dead.

Suicide attacks fall prey to a particular problem, and that is why conspiracy theories come about. Even Kennedy's assassination has the same problem. The problem is that the perpertrators are dead, consequently the events are not examined in a court of law, with every facet of the evidence presented before a jury and recorded in full. Public enquiries and commissions seem somehow never to have the same strength of credibility.

 

[MikeW]

How this tallies with claims of people like the innocent Al-Shehri who had never been to the states is something the Truthers don't have an explanation for.

Actually the BBC's Waleed al-Shehri had been to the US. Not being picky, but that fact doesn't support their case: he started his pilot training in 1996 when the hijacker al-Shehri would have been only 16 (http://www.911myths.com/html/waleed_al-shehri_still_alive.html).