A study in scarlet

[antihippy]

Doyles attitude toward the Mormons has been discussed extensively within the Sherlock Holmes fanbase. (Some of the debates make the squabbles in our "Politics" section look like schoolyard spats!) The concensus seems to be that the Mormons served as a "Bad Guy" for the purposes of the story, and do not represent any specific antipathy on Doyles part.

Thanks for this.

It (the sudden change to the US) almost spoiled my enjoyment of the story, but I battled through and moved onto the Sign of Four. SoF was much better even if the inherent xenophobia was obvious whenever an indian was mentioned. I was talking to a friend of mine the other night and he informed me of a disclaimer he found when he was researching Doyle for a dissertation: "We would like to point out that the natives of the Andaman Islands are not, in fact, cannibals; no we don't now why Conan Doyle chose to make them so either."

 

[Beady]

"We would like to point out that the natives of the Andaman Islands are not, in fact, cannibals; no we don't now why Conan Doyle chose to make them so either."

The simple fact is, there is no fantasy that Doyle would refuse to present as fact, if he wanted (not needed, but wanted) to use it as a plot device. I strongly suggest that this thread be suspended until all participants have read "The Creeping Man." *Then* we can come back and try to puzzle out why Doyle did what he did, even when he knew better.

 

[antihippy]

The simple fact is, there is no fantasy that Doyle would refuse to present as fact, if he wanted (not needed, but wanted) to use it as a plot device. I strongly suggest that this thread be suspended until all participants have read "The Creeping Man." *Then* we can come back and try to puzzle out why Doyle did what he did, even when he knew better.

ha ha!

Perhaps we should. A quick google demonstrated that that story may be quite a debate ...

 

[Luciana]

The simple fact is, there is no fantasy that Doyle would refuse to present as fact, if he wanted (not needed, but wanted) to use it as a plot device. I strongly suggest that this thread be suspended until all participants have read "The Creeping Man." *Then* we can come back and try to puzzle out why Doyle did what he did, even when he knew better.

I read the entire collection three times, but the last time was five years ago. I remember the story well, but have only a vague recollection of its inconsistencies. I have always enjoyed Holmes' methods more than the mysteries themselves.

To me that story is purely science fiction. The old professor is taking "rejuvenation seeds" so he could get married to a younger lady (to me that's an aphodisiac, right?). Then he acquires certain traits as that of a monkey! Doyle should know better than that, of course. I could buy that the professor's smell changed because of the poison, thus rendering him loathsome to his own dogs, but how do you explain the monkey-like agility? I think his knuckles were also oversized? Holmed guessed he was addicted to something that came from the mail and made him behave like that. That's part of the story that is cool.

On that vein, what about The Lion's Mane? Could this jellyfish ever live in a pool and kill a grown man? Well, this wouldn't have been a story at all today. When the dying man said "lion's mane", a Sherlock only had to type that in google and voila! Culprit.

 

[Lucky]

I read the entire collection three times, but the last time was five years ago. I remember the story well, but have only a vague recollection of its inconsistencies. I have always enjoyed Holmes' methods more than the mysteries themselves.

To me that story is purely science fiction. The old professor is taking "rejuvenation seeds" so he could get married to a younger lady (to me that's an aphodisiac, right?). Then he acquires certain traits as that of a monkey! Doyle should know better than that, of course. I could buy that the professor's smell changed because of the poison, thus rendering him loathsome to his own dogs, but how do you explain the monkey-like agility? I think his knuckles were also oversized? Holmed guessed he was addicted to something that came from the mail and made him behave like that. That's part of the story that is cool.

On that vein, what about The Lion's Mane? Could this jellyfish ever live in a pool and kill a grown man? Well, this wouldn't have been a story at all today. When the dying man said "lion's mane", a Sherlock only had to type that in google and voila! Culprit.

In The Adventure Of The Creeping Man the professor has been taking a ‘serum’ extracted from a Himalayan monkey. Doyle didn’t invent this idea; it belonged to the science of his day (though ‘fringe’ or ‘quack’ science, I suppose). I agree that the story is pure science fiction. The science doesn’t have to be right!

Similarly for The Adventure of the Lion’s Mane; as far as I know that jellyfish isn’t found in the UK. It’s literary licence, and I can’t see anything wrong with that.

I would say that Doyle was considerably less xenophobic and racist than than his contemporaries of a similar background. He has many sympathetic foreign characters, and not just Americans. The Adventure of the Yellow Face throws an interesting light on his feelings about race.

 

[Beady]

The Adventure of the Yellow Face throws an interesting light on his feelings about race.

Precisely my thoughts, while reading your post.

I'm really going to have to go back and reread the entire cannon. Haven't done that since my brother gave me Barring-Gould's 2-volume annoted collection, some 30 years ago.

 

[Pope130]

In defense of Sir Arthur: He was a working fiction writer, making his living by selling to the general public. He did not necessarily base his stories on what he believed to be true, but rather what his audience would accept within the story.
Even he understood the difference between his commercial and serious writing. In addition to the popular magazine work he did historical fiction and straight history work for which he did a great deal of research. He viewed his own popular work as a way to pay the bills, and his true calling the histories. It's ironic that a hundred years later his serious work is little known, but his most commercial character, Sherlock Holmes, can still be described as; "The Most Famous Man Who Never Lived".
Even with some of the improbable ideas included in the canon, and his later advocacy of spiritualism, Conan Doyle still deserves respect from the skeptical community for the creation of Sherlock Holmes. Holmes, while not the first 'scientific detective' of fiction, was the first to plausibly show how gathering of evidence, analysis, and logical inference worked. He still stands as a roll model for the forensic sciences and rational thought.

Robert

 

[Beady]

Holmes, while not the first 'scientific detective' of fiction, was the first to plausibly show how gathering of evidence, analysis, and logical inference worked.

Who came first, Holmes or Richard Thorndyke? Personally, I always preferred Thorndyke, even though the stories are harder to come by; you usually find them in anthologies entitled "The Rivals of Sherlock Holmes."

Thorndyke was the model for Columbo. First, you saw the crime committed, then spent the rest of the story watching it being solved.

 

[antihippy]

I would say that Doyle was considerably less xenophobic and racist than than his contemporaries of a similar background. He has many sympathetic foreign characters, and not just Americans. The Adventure of the Yellow Face throws an interesting light on his feelings about race.

I agree.

There is a bit of a logical inconsistency in one of the characters in The Sign of Four. Small has all the same prejuidices of his contemporaries and yet feels completely loyal to the rest of his band. But then; whoever said human nature was consistent?

Another interesting aspect of Holmes is how rounded he is as a character. You can imagine him as a real person. Watson has all the weird attitudes towards women that you would expect from a victorian and Holmes is more ... cold. However Holmes obviously values intellect over anything and so it is hinted that falls [sort of] in love in "A Scandal in Bohemia".

---
On the dissertation subject I mentioned above.

I wasn't suggesting that Doyle was stupid, or a racist, or anything similar. And the guy I chatted to knew full well that Doyle was just reflecting the attitudes of the day. I just thought it was an amusing anecdote.
---
Thanks for the Sutdy in Emerald recommendation. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

[Pope130]

Who came first, Holmes or Richard Thorndyke?/QUOTE]

Holmes. The earliest Thorndyke I could find was "The Blue Sequin", published 1908. "The Mystery of 31 New Inn" was apparently first written in 1905, rewritten and published in1911.

Robert